Looking forward to watching some of the Olympic events! Who else here is? :) And any special events?
PD
I will; Tokyo had the disadvantage of far timezone and panicdemic lack of audience, real spirit of the Games and next 2 times will be LA and Australia, again bad time zones, so I hope I'll get to watch more with more fun this time. I don't care for ceremony spectacles, though, probably not going to watch the opening pageant.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 26, 2024, 07:03:30 AMI will; Tokyo had the disadvantage of far timezone and panicdemic lack of audience, real spirit of the Games and next 2 times will be LA and Australia, again bad time zones, so I hope I'll get to watch more with more fun this time. I don't care for ceremony spectacles, though, probably not going to watch the opening pageant.
Yes, time zones can certainly make or break watching sports (and other things) live. Here in the States, I found out that they are showing the opening ceremonies both live (starting 1:30 p.m. on the East Coast) and then again during prime time when more people will be able to watch it.
Earlier today, I heard about the attacks on France's high speed train lines (which run into Paris). >:( Last I heard, only about one in four of them will be able to function--at least 'til Monday. :( I don't know whether or not anyone has yet taken "credit" for their work.
PD
The first summer olympics I watched was L.A. 1984 (while I dimly recall Moscow 1980, Germany did not participate because of the boycott and I was also too small to be interested).
Because of the time zone (9 hours earlier or so) many events took place during night/very early morning in Europe. Therefore, in German TV this was the first time we got "breakfast TV" (Frühstücksfernsehen) this being repeats/summaries from about 6 a.m. or so of what had happened right before. For whatever reason this must have worked so well that I don't remember being bothered by the time difference then.
Of course, today the problem is that one has to somewhat avoid social media if one watches a decision hours later. This was no danger in 1984.
Quote from: Jo498 on July 26, 2024, 07:48:38 AMThe first summer olympics I watched was L.A. 1984 (while I dimly recall Moscow 1980, Germany did not participate because of the boycott and I was also too small to be interested).
Because of the time zone (9 hours earlier or so) many events took place during night/very early morning in Europe. Therefore, in German TV this was the first time we got "breakfast TV" (Frühstücksfernsehen) this being repeats/summaries from about 6 a.m. or so of what had happened right before. For whatever reason this must have worked so well that I don't remember being bothered by the time difference then.
Of course, today the problem is that one has to somewhat avoid social media if one watches a decision hours later. This was no danger in 1984.
Oh, dear! I'm afraid that my age will be showing as the first one that I recall watching was the 1972 one in München. Some of the things that I remember from it: Mark Spitz bringing home oodles of swimming medals, the gymnast Olga Korbut, and the dreadful kidnapping and massacre of members of the Israeli Olympic team.
PD
I was born in 1972. Supposedly, my dad scared infant me when he jumped up loudly cheered at the TV as 16 yo Ulrike Meyfarth won the High Jump. I think she was the youngest track&field athlete ever to win a gold medal (there were younger gymnasts, of course) and she was also one of very few athletes (or the only one) to win gold medals 12 years apart in the same event because she won in fact again in 1984.
Unfortunately, it's a soggy start to the Olympics. Thankfully, Roland Garros has two covered courts. Strange to see (using the multi-screen view) Djokovic playing on one court and Alcaraz on the other one--at the same time.
Ooooh! They just showed a cyclist going down on the slick road [Women's time trials].
PD
Did anyone else here watch any of the opening ceremonies? I was quite impressed: very creative!
Came in partway to Alcaraz's and Nadal's match against the very experienced Argentinians Maximo Gonzalez and Andres Molteni (who have won a number of doubles trophies together (over the past few years) and separately. Was 3-all when I was able to sit down after doing some errands. Really enjoyed the match! Was impressed how well Carlitos and Rafa played together. Won the first set in a tiebreak and in the second set, were down 3-0 and managed to break back. Good fight by both teams. My friend and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Catching a bit of Kerber vs. Osaka now. :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 27, 2024, 11:56:21 AMDid anyone else here watch any of the opening ceremonies? I was quite impressed: very creative!
I watched them almost in their entirety. Nicely done, with one exception: the French
can-can was rather bland and tame, almost Victorian: nothing really erotically provocative.
Offenbach must have rolled in his grave. ;D
When the rider on the Seine appeared, at first I thought "Hey, this is Don Quixote riding his Rocinante" but on second thought, what with the spectral white and the ghostly appearance, I realized the truth: it was actually Wilhelm from
Buerger's
Lenore. (
@Jo498 ). :D
And speaking of tennis, I just loved the match between the Romanian Jacqueline Cristian and the French Caroline Garcia. Despite playing against not one but two opponents, Garcia and the public, my fellow countrywoman played superbly and won, 5-7, 6-3, 6-4.
With an orchestra playing in the rain, perhaps damaging their instruments, I found this article featuring Rowan Atkinson (https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/orchestra-wet-instruments-olympics-paris-ceremony/).
And here is the clip in question, Mr Bean helping out Rattle/LSO:
The musical performance was pre-recorded to avoid the orchestra playing in the rain.
Quote from: DavidW on July 28, 2024, 04:49:57 AMWith an orchestra playing in the rain, perhaps damaging their instruments
How about Alexandre Kantorow playing Ravel on a soaked piano? That was also a very nice moment.
The boat scene/trip made me think of the river Styx and Charon. :) I liked the variety of music and arts that they used. And yes, it made for a soggy opening. Sad story of a member on the Italian team; apparently, he had lost some weight during his training and his wedding band fell off of his finger, bounced on the deck and then into the river! :(
@Floristan I only caught some glimpses of that match and don't know much about the Romanian woman, but kudos for her! Currently, watching a singles match: Nadal vs. Fucsovics. I was wondering whether or not he would still play singles after his doubles match yesterday; however, there he is! ;D One set each. Looks like it's a nice day in Paris today. Note: the winner of the match gets to play Djokovic in the next round. :o
As a side note: rather surprised to see different outfits on players from the same country and team. From what I recall, it used to be very matchy matchy. Fucsovics (Hungarian) is also wearing a white shirt and black shorts. I'm confused as the colors on the Hungarian flag are red, white and green.
PD
p.s.
@DavidW Yes, rain and instruments--particularly wooden ones--don't go together well!
Had a hard time watching the men's tennis doubles match today between GB and Japan. I could see the scores live via the BBC's website, but couldn't watch it on Peacock t.v. (online). In any event, I went out to do my grocery shopping with a friend (GB had lost the first set and it was roughly 5-all in the second set). Came back and clicked on "replay" and strangely enough, the beginning of the replay was at 4-all in the second set! Bizarre! Watched it from there...Murray and Evans won the second set in a (usual) 7-point tiebreak...so one set each. It then went to a super tiebreak (10-points). At one point Japan (Daniel and Nishikori) had 3 match points. GB fought back and made it 9-all and then won the next 2 points so final score was 11-9 [You have to win by 2 points.].
Also watched some repeats on t.v. of swimming events, diving and a bit of men's vaulting last night...plus a tad bit of the dressage....too many events to keep up with! ::)
And you? :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 28, 2024, 01:15:21 PM.too many events to keep up with! ::)
And you? :)
PD
Table Tennis:
Elisabeta Samara (ROU) beat Solomia Boreyko (UKR).
8)
Quote from: Florestan on July 28, 2024, 01:33:13 PMTable Tennis: Elisabeta Samara (ROU) beat Solomia Boreyko (UKR).
8)
Florestan,
Speaking of the "can-can", I think that you would enjoy watching the Brazilian women's floor competition--specifically Flavia's (don't know the full name) from today (tonight there I believe). A very entertaining and crowd pleasing and artistic group.
And congrats to your Roumanian athlete.
PD
p.s. I'm looking forward to catching up and watching some of the US gymnastics team; a group of extremely talented and hard-working young women. There's also some equine events that I'd like to catch up with...oy! Can't view it all! :( So many talented athletes and their interesting stories who are from all around the world.
:-X :-X
I am looking forward to women's rugby this week. I watched two women's sports with great enjoyment yesterday - the rather dramatic fencing final, and "kayaking slalom," where solo boaters try to navigate a river rapids while going through various gates. That was an eye-opening and dramatic new sport for me! It looked impressively difficult.
I got a kick out of the woman's gold medalist in XC mountain biking win it on a hardtail (no suspension in the back) bike. Makes me want to order a titanium hardtail even more for my XC racing. The Olympics or World Cup men could do with some toughening up like the women!
Found online.39BB15C7-449A-414A-BFBF-1FBCF6B0B3FE.jpg
Quote from: Florestan on July 28, 2024, 01:33:13 PMTable Tennis: Elisabeta Samara (ROU) beat Solomia Boreyko (UKR).
8)
Watched the final of mixed doubles. China v North Korea. Unable to make up my mind which to cheer for! Great stuff all the same.
Quote from: Brian on July 28, 2024, 02:49:36 PM:-X :-X
I am looking forward to women's rugby this week. I watched two women's sports with great enjoyment yesterday - the rather dramatic fencing final, and "kayaking slalom," where solo boaters try to navigate a river rapids while going through various gates. That was an eye-opening and dramatic new sport for me! It looked impressively difficult.
I remember watching that event...probably four years ago? And like you, I was thinking that that must be tough!
Quote from: Atriod on July 29, 2024, 01:58:12 PMI got a kick out of the woman's gold medalist in XC mountain biking win it on a hardtail (no suspension in the back) bike. Makes me want to order a titanium hardtail even more for my XC racing. The Olympics or World Cup men could do with some toughening up like the women!
Does that have to do with stability/control of the bike?
Quote from: JBS on July 29, 2024, 06:19:09 PMFound online.39BB15C7-449A-414A-BFBF-1FBCF6B0B3FE.jpg
Very clever! ;D
Quote from: Irons on July 30, 2024, 06:51:06 AMWatched the final of mixed doubles. China v North Korea. Unable to make up my mind which to cheer for! Great stuff all the same.
I remember playing what we called back then "ping pong" in the family basement back when I was a kid; nothing like the speed and the slams that they do at the professional level! :(
Nadal and Alcaraz coming up soon. They will be playing the Dutch team of Griekspoor and Koolhof. A bit later, Murray and Evans will also be playing their second round (vs. the Belgian team of Gille and Vliegen).
PD
I feel for the athletes competing today. 95 degrees in Paris!
PD
Quote from: Irons on July 30, 2024, 06:51:06 AMWatched the final of mixed doubles. China v North Korea. Unable to make up my mind which to cheer for! Great stuff all the same.
Stopped watching at 2-2. Who won?
Quote from: LKB on July 30, 2024, 10:36:48 AMThe audience. ;)
Extremely helpful, thanks a lot.
Do you have a table tennis table
@Irons and play?
Caught some of the tennis matches today [I know, I'm a broken record!]. Really pleased to see Alcarez and Nadal win their match today--particularly after Rafa's not-too-unexpected loss to Novak yesterday. Also, happy to see Andy Murray and Dan Evans doubles win...you could see how much it meant to them. Wonderful to see Andy so happy. Also watched bits from other matches, but I won't bore you with them. ;D
Currently watching online repeat of the women's gymnastics. :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 30, 2024, 07:11:30 AMDoes that have to do with stability/control of the bike?
Yes indeed. The suspension will absorb impact on the rear end when going over large bumps like rocks and roots without the rear end bucking around. In theory more time that the rear tire is in contact with the ground means being faster as that means more power being put into the tire when you pedal.
I follow enduro and downhill mountain biking a bit more than cross country; the best of them jump from team to team on bikes of different calibers and the best are just as fast on any bike. One of the all time greatest downhill racers once won the downhill World Cup when his chain came off at the start of the race: https://youtu.be/KMJTnB-50zE
Quote from: Atriod on July 30, 2024, 01:40:02 PMYes indeed. The suspension will absorb impact on the rear end when going over large bumps like rocks and roots without the rear end bucking around. In theory more time that the rear tire is in contact with the ground means being faster as that means more power being put into the tire when you pedal.
I follow enduro and downhill mountain biking a bit more than cross country; the best of them jump from team to team on bikes of different calibers and the best are just as fast on any bike. One of the all time greatest downhill racers once won the downhill World Cup when his chain came off at the start of the race: https://youtu.be/KMJTnB-50zE
O.k, so I'm a bit confused now. Why do (at least some) of the women not have rear suspension on their bikes then? From your description, it would seem that it would help? Or does it have something to do with the added weight?
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 30, 2024, 01:16:32 PMDo you have a table tennis table @Irons and play?
Caught some of the tennis matches today [I know, I'm a broken record!]. Really pleased to see Alcarez and Nadal win their match today--particularly after Rafa's not-too-unexpected loss to Novak yesterday. Also, happy to see Andy Murray and Dan Evans doubles win...you could see how much it meant to them. Wonderful to see Andy so happy. Also watched bits from other matches, but I won't bore you with them. ;D
Currently watching online repeat of the women' gymnastics. :)
PD
Unfortunately not, PD. For a period of my life I had an obsession with Squash. Dodgy knees put paid to that.
Quote from: Irons on July 30, 2024, 11:33:31 PMUnfortunately not, PD. For a period of my life I had an obsession with Squash. Dodgy knees put paid to that.
That sounds like fun (not the dodgy knees part though!). I've never played squash, but I did love to play racquetball.
PD
Quote from: Jo498 on July 26, 2024, 07:03:30 AMI will; Tokyo had the disadvantage of far timezone and panicdemic lack of audience ....
I haven't been following the games, and sadly (if this be genuine news) my only awareness so far has been that it's become a COVID Superspreader.
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 31, 2024, 08:22:33 AMI haven't been following the games, and sadly (if this be genuine news) my only awareness so far has been that it's become a COVID Superspreader.
I'm curious as to where you read or heard the news. Hope that it isn't true. :(
Currently catching some of the Nadal Alcaraz vs. Krajicek Ram match. I should be wearing a sign that says "Conflicted American--love Nadalcaraz [current nickname of their team]." The American team are known for their doubles skills and wins.
Note: Rafa did win the gold medal in doubles in 2016 with Marc Lopez.
PD
https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/covid-19-looms-over-olympics-with-several-athletes-testing-positive-2024-07-30/
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 30, 2024, 01:16:32 PMDo you have a table tennis table @Irons and play?
You didn't ask me, PD, but yes I have one in my yard. Not an official one, just the next best thing we were able to improvise, short of only 5/10 cm on the sides. Perfect for amateurs like us. We play and have great fun.
Much less funny is that the Romanian Bernadette Szőcs lost to the Austrian Sofia Polcanova, 0-4. Berni, we love you! 8)
(https://media.prosport.ro/AHYXOXn2gAM98QF_4j46E5AdPOM=/1280x720/smart/filters:contrast(5):format(webp):quality(80)/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prosport.ro%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2024%2F07%2FBernadette-Szocs-e-gata-sa-aduca-o-medalie-Romaniei-la-Jocurile-Olimpice.jpg)
OTOH, David Popovici won the gold medal for 200 m freestyle swimming and the bronze medal for 100 m freestyle swimming.
Bravo, David! Romania is proud of you! 8)
(https://s.iw.ro/gateway/g/ZmlsZVNvdXJjZT1odHRwJTNBJTJGJTJG/c3RvcmFnZTA4dHJhbnNjb2Rlci5yY3Mt/cmRzLnJvJTJGc3RvcmFnZSUyRjIwMjQl/MkYwNyUyRjMwJTJGMjAzNjIzMl8yMDM2/MjMyX3Byb2ZpbWVkaWEtMDg5MzkxODE0/Ny0xLmpwZyZ3PTc4MCZoPTQ0MCZoYXNo/PWM1YjZjZmUzODRhZjQyZTQ1MjZlOTVkYTRkNjU5NTQ4.thumb.jpg)
Quote from: Karl Henning on July 31, 2024, 10:03:20 AMhttps://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/covid-19-looms-over-olympics-with-several-athletes-testing-positive-2024-07-30/
Instead of reporting on what truly counts for the Paris Olympics, Reuters chooses to be a killjoy just for the sake of it. Shame on them, everlastingly!
Quote from: Florestan on July 31, 2024, 02:42:58 PMInstead of reporting on what truly counts for the Paris Olympics, Reuters chooses to be a killjoy just for the sake of it. Shame on them, everlastingly!
Why do you think Reuters has not also reported on the competitions?
So, Reuters had no business reporting on a public health concern?
Men's BMX final yesterday. These guys defy gravity! 'Unbelievable' is a throw away line but this is.
Argentina earned a well deserved gold. Kieran Reilly of GB, silver. France, bronze.
Noticeable camaraderie amongst all contestants. Which is natural with such a high-risk sport, a few came a cropper in the final.
https://youtu.be/9sNTHzwvME0?si=Y7QqQxsxYa1cJ1Dl
Quote from: Florestan on July 31, 2024, 10:39:34 AMYou didn't ask me, PD, but yes I have one in my yard. Not an official one, just the next best thing we were able to improvise, short of only 5/10 cm on the sides. Perfect for amateurs like us. We play and have great fun.
Oh, nice! What is it made of and how do you keep it from warping (being outside)?
PD
Quote from: Irons on August 01, 2024, 06:39:31 AMMen's BMX final yesterday. These guys defy gravity! 'Unbelievable' is a throw away line but this is.
Argentina earned a well deserved gold. Kieran Reilly of GB, silver. France, bronze.
Noticeable camaraderie amongst all contestants. Which is natural with such a high-risk sport, a few came a cropper in the final.
https://youtu.be/9sNTHzwvME0?si=Y7QqQxsxYa1cJ1Dl
Is this sort of akin to snowboarding competitions with (I forget what they call them)--half "tubes/pikes?" with the snowboarders going up one side and then flipping/turning and then skating down/up to the other side to do the same, etc. but on bikes on cement (vs. snow)?
Caught some bits from a few events today. Yesterday, the US team won the team gold in gymnastics and today Simone Biles won her second individual gold (all around) in gymnastics.. Very "chuffed" as certain folks here might say for all of the females on the US team. But also some incredible and moving stories: a Brazilian woman (who grew up in a favela), well her family could not afford the bus fare to her gymnastic training, so her older brothers walked her there. Just found this online--truly touching and amazing how she succeeded. She won the individual silver medal and the US won the gold and bronze. The bronze medalist had struggled with kidney issues--don't know much beyond that at the moment. Her name is Suni Lee. The Brazilian gymnast's name is Rebeca Andrade. Her story is here: https://www.wliw.org/radio/news/how-a-bunk-bed-acrobat-from-a-favela-in-brazil-became-the-2-female-gymnast-in-the-world/
Also, some fragments of tennis matches. Sad to see Murray and Evans beaten in the quarters. Alas, that means no shot at the bronze for them. And, according to Andy, this event was going to be the end of his tennis career. Second set, the British duo played much better. Was touched to see how, afterwards, the crowd chanted out "Andy! Andy!"
And brief glimpses of Katie Ledecky winning yet another swimming medal. :o From what I understand, she is now the most decorated female swimmer ever! Hard to fathom the wins by Biles and Ledecky.
So, what all have others here watched? Thoughts/comments? :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 01, 2024, 07:13:00 AMOh, nice! What is it made of and how do you keep it from warping (being outside)?
PD
I don't know. Some sort of composite material, but it's quite resistant to water, heat and sunlight. It's actually a sheathing plate. I protect it against rain with a plastic foil.
This falls under..."When you need a good laugh..."
Mary Carillo (an American commentator) had a few minutes of airtime to fill during the broadcast of badminton at the Athen's Olympics. The video is a bit blurry, but I think that you will still appreciate it. :)
PD
Shocking developments in female Olympic boxing. My heart went out to Angela Carini who should never be allowed to be put in such a dangerous situation. Sickening to hear platitudes from the idiot representing the Olympic organisers. Shameful. The wellbeing of all contestants must be first and last consideration.
Quote from: Irons on August 02, 2024, 07:57:26 AMShocking developments in female Olympic boxing. My heart went out to Angela Carini who should never be allowed to be put in such a dangerous situation. Sickening to hear platitudes from the idiot representing the Olympic organisers. Shameful. The wellbeing of all contestants must be first and last consideration.
Sounds grave. What happened?
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 30, 2024, 02:44:09 PMO.k, so I'm a bit confused now. Why do (at least some) of the women not have rear suspension on their bikes then? From your description, it would seem that it would help? Or does it have something to do with the added weight?
PD
Everything I wrote was in theory. The hardtail would be 3-4 lbs lighter than the equivalent full suspension bike, that might be a preference for some people.
Quote from: Florestan on August 02, 2024, 11:22:51 AMSounds grave. What happened?
Here https://youtu.be/yaDnUVcxDfo?si=7S8i7iLVUuKa0MzF I warn you a brutal watch. Not the place for gender politics, but if this is allowed then boxing should be dropped as an Olympic sport and I'm saying that as a boxing fan.
Quote from: Irons on August 03, 2024, 12:31:23 AMHere https://youtu.be/yaDnUVcxDfo?si=7S8i7iLVUuKa0MzF (https://youtu.be/yaDnUVcxDfo?si=7S8i7iLVUuKa0MzF)
Video unavailable
This video contains content from International Olympic Committee, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.Doesn't matter, I checked the media and learned about/watched the whole kerfuffle. It's absolutely intolerable. That the bearded woman has become a feature of Eurovision that has now spilled over into the Olympics opening ceremony, is one thing, bad enough; that women who are actually men by all hormonal and chromosomial standards are admitted to women competition is quite another, absolutely intolerable.
I've noticed long time ago that there are real women in volleyball, handball, basketball, tennis, table tennis, field hockey, swimming, rowing, athletics, fencing, shooting*, archery etc --- whereas in box, judo, wrestling and weightlifting the alleged womanhood is quite uncertain in some cases. ;D
*my favorite in this respect is the Indian Manu Bhaker: such concentration and calmness combined with such an easy-on-the-eyes presence.
I'm sad to see misinformation being posted here. That woman was born a woman, with a female body, female organs and so forth. She comes from a country where transgenderism and gender non-conformity are crimes. She tested high for testosterone after her career was underway, and a genetic test was required to reveal the abnormality. Because most women do not become professional athletes, these conditions are more common than most people suppose (https://novonordiskfonden.dk/en/news/more-women-than-expected-are-genetically-men/), and that link (from pharmaceutical company Novo Nordisk) notes women going undiagnosed until age 34.
What this proves is not whether any one person is a "man" or not, but that gender is not as fixed or binary as people would have you believe. There are all sorts of interesting unusual genetic twists possible for humans. In this way the ancients had it right. And Shakespeare: there are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy...
Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2024, 08:56:09 AMShe tested high for testosterone after her career was underway, and a genetic test was required to reveal the abnormality
Yes, and right after the abnormality was revealed she should have been disqualified from women competition and allowed in men competition, if she so willed.
It has nothing at all to do with criminalizing trans-genderism (which is obviously not the case here) or gender-nonconformity I(whatever this might mean) and everything to do with fair play.
As for Shakespeare, as G. F. Lichtenberg put it, the reverse is also true: there are lots of things in one's philosophy of which there is no trace on heaven and earth...
Quote from: Florestan on August 03, 2024, 09:05:32 AMYes, and right after the abnormality was revealed she should have been disqualified from women competition and allowed in men competition, if she so willed.
Well, I disagree with that. She's still a woman. Entering a competition against men is not an option for a woman. If she has an unfair biological advantage, well, so do really tall basketball players, swimmers with huge shoulders... Andre the Giant is a prior example of someone with an advantage conferred by a genetic disorder.
Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2024, 09:32:43 AMEntering a competition against men is not an option for a woman.
Exactly by this essentially correct token, entering a competition against Imane Kheliff is not an option for a woman, as Angela Carini's case clearly demonstrated. Kheliff is a woman who has manly power because of a biological abnormality --- and this confers her an unfair advantage over women who have womanly power because they are biologically normal.
If you ask me, women boxing should have never been allowed officially at all.
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree and move on, all the more so as neither you nor me can have the least say or influence on the matter.
The boxer is most likely an xy-Person with a disorder of sexual development (and here probably "46,xy alpha 2 reductase" whatever) that leads to female looking external genitalia (thus identified and raised as a girl, esp. in 3 world/poorer countries) but with internal testes, thus male puberty and advantages vs. females wrt to bone structure, muscle mass, cardiovascular capacity and also male testosterone levels.
This is nothing new, women's sports have struggled with such individuals for quite a while. The most famous case being the south African 800m runner Caster Semenya who appeared from "nowhere" to win a world medal in 2009. It took over 10 years for World Athletics to eventually ban such athletes unless they medically reduce the testosteron levels. (Or at least I think that was the latest development).
This DSD condition is rare but not that rare and before the ban about 8-10 such athletes competed since 2009 in running events at international level.
Obviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)
This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.
Quote from: Jo498 on August 03, 2024, 09:54:31 AMObviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)
This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.
This, in spades.
Quote from: Florestan on August 03, 2024, 09:44:11 AMIf you ask me, women boxing should have never been allowed officially at all.
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree and move on, all the more so as neither you nor me can have the least say or influence on the matter.
That is good advice, and all I will say is that I don't enjoy or especially approve boxing even by men. Certainly I would not have known about the situation except for the usual political provocateurs who are looking for any excuse to foment division and debate.
Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2024, 10:07:53 AMI don't enjoy or especially approve boxing even by men.
I don't enjoy contact sports either --- except rugby.
When it comes to women competition, my favorite sport is volleyball.
Quote from: Florestan on August 03, 2024, 10:38:02 AMI don't enjoy contact sports either --- except rugby.
When it comes to women competition, my favorite sport is volleyball.
Rugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" ;D
Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2024, 10:46:25 AMRugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" ;D
They got it all wrong, it should be "Team Texas". ;D
Quote from: Brian on August 03, 2024, 10:46:25 AMRugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" ;D
Before their third name change the NFL team Washington Commanders were simply Washington Football Team, I always thought they should have went with Washington Football Club ala European clubs and had a crest style logo.
If you like Sevens I can endorse Gaelic Football (less contact, more open ala Sevens) as quite fun to watch live if you're ever in Ireland.
Quote from: Jo498 on August 03, 2024, 09:54:31 AMThe boxer is most likely an xy-Person with a disorder of sexual development (and here probably "46,xy alpha 2 reductase" whatever) that leads to female looking external genitalia (thus identified and raised as a girl, esp. in 3 world/poorer countries) but with internal testes, thus male puberty and advantages vs. females wrt to bone structure, muscle mass, cardiovascular capacity and also male testosterone levels.
This is nothing new, women's sports have struggled with such individuals for quite a while. The most famous case being the south African 800m runner Caster Semenya who appeared from "nowhere" to win a world medal in 2009. It took over 10 years for World Athletics to eventually ban such athletes unless they medically reduce the testosteron levels. (Or at least I think that was the latest development).
This DSD condition is rare but not that rare and before the ban about 8-10 such athletes competed since 2009 in running events at international level.
Obviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)
This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.
Read this today:Alan Abrahamson, an award winning sportswriter and previous columnist for NBC Sports says that he has seen the tests and letter in which the IBA concluded that the boxer, Imane Khelif has DNA which is that "of a male consisting of XY chromosomes."Two separate tests were taken. One in India in 2023 at the World Championships in New Delhi and a prior test in Turkey in 2022. The IBA (International Boxing Assoc) sent a letter to the IOC (International Olympic Committee) on June 5, 2023 informing them of the results of those tests."The New Delhi lab reports for both Khelif and Lin say the same thing: Result Summary: "Abnormal"Interpretation: "Chromosomal analysis reveals Male karyotype." "The lab results for each athlete depict the XY chromosomes photographically." The IBA disqualified those two athletes. The IOC asserts both athletes were DQ'd without due process by the IBA. Yet they were given a chance to appeal the decisions. Yu Ting Lin did not appeal to the Swiss based court of arbitration. Khelif did but later withdrew the appeal. The letter of June 2023 from the IBA to the IOC, (referring solely to Khelif) states in part "We are kindly writing to offer our support and cooperation on the matter as it directly impacts the safety of our boxers and the integrity of the [competition] results. In confidence, the IBA can share that Imane Khelif was disqualified from the IBA Women's World Boxing Championships 2023 in New Delhi for breaching the IBA Technical and Competition Rules and was not medically eligible to participate in the event as a female boxer."The letter directs the IOC to the attached lab reports."
A great story here: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027385999/a-gold-medalist-returned-to-thank-the-volunteer-who-helped-him-make-his-race-on-
From what I heard (via watching live), she was also given a paid-for-trip to Jamaica I think by the Jamaican government--not certain re who offered it to her. :)
PD
EDIT: Ah, here we go: https://www.businessinsider.com/olympic-volunteer-is-getting-an-all-expenses-paid-trip-jamaica-2021-8?op=1
@DavidW @Karl Henning @SonicMan46 Here's part of the clip from the closing ceremonies (I noticed that they edited it a bit...no riding the motorcycle through the line of athletes for instance; however, this will give you a good idea). Fun to see also how they involved various athletes in the transfer of the Olympic flag to LA. :)
PD
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on August 11, 2024, 11:52:37 PM@DavidW @Karl Henning @SonicMan46
Here's part of the clip from the closing ceremonies (I noticed that they edited it a bit...no riding the motorcycle through the line of athletes for instance; however, this will give you a good idea). Fun to see also how they involved various athletes in the transfer of the Olympic flag to LA. :)
PD
Sorry guys! This video was available back when I posted it. If you're curious, go to YT and google something along the lines of "Olympics closing ceremony Tom Cruise" and you can find shorter and longer clips of it. :(
PD
Some phenomenal athletes in this Olympics --- otomh, David Popovici (ROU), Leon Marchand (FRA), Wiffen (IRL), Ethan Katzberg (CAN), Grady Ellison (USA), Armand Duplantis (SWE), Antropova and Egonu (ITA), Lyles (USA) etc, but I think the special prize should go to Alexandra Miroslaw (POL) who set a new WR for speed climbing and then broke it --- all during half an hour. Amazing!
Quote from: Florestan on August 12, 2024, 09:59:02 AMSome phenomenal athletes in this Olympics --- otomh, David Popovici (ROU), Leon Marchand (FRA), Wiffen (IRL), Ethan Katzberg (CAN), Grady Ellison (USA), Armand Duplantis (SWE), Antropova and Egonu (ITA), Lyles (USA) etc, but I think the special prize should go to Alexandra Miroslaw (POL) who set a new WR for speed climbing and then broke it --- all during half an hour. Amazing!
Yes, it's amazing to watch these athletes (who often are struggling for financial support to be able to train and to get to the Olympics) achieve what they do. And regarding breaking records, a friend and I were chatting about having seen a Swedish male pole vaulter break his own records = Armand D. I was heartened by the support from other pole vaulters from different countries supporting him--if I'm not mistaken, someone from another country was helping him to deal with a bleeding injury on his main pole hand (not certain of the term, but the one that takes the most stress during the jump)--taping him up, etc.
PD