The Olympics - Paris 2024

[Florestan]

Oh, nice!  What is it made of and how do you keep it from warping (being outside)?

PD

I don't know. Some sort of composite material, but it's quite resistant to water, heat and sunlight. It's actually a sheathing plate. I protect it against rain with a plastic foil.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This falls under..."When you need a good laugh..."

Mary Carillo (an American commentator) had a few minutes of airtime to fill during the broadcast of badminton at the Athen's Olympics.  The video is a bit blurry, but I think that you will still appreciate it.   

PD

[Irons]

Shocking developments in female Olympic boxing. My heart went out to Angela Carini who should never be allowed to be put in such a dangerous situation. Sickening to hear platitudes from the idiot representing the Olympic organisers. Shameful. The wellbeing of all contestants must be first and last consideration.

[Florestan]

Shocking developments in female Olympic boxing. My heart went out to Angela Carini who should never be allowed to be put in such a dangerous situation. Sickening to hear platitudes from the idiot representing the Olympic organisers. Shameful. The wellbeing of all contestants must be first and last consideration.

Sounds grave. What happened?

[Atriod]

O.k, so I'm a bit confused now.  Why do (at least some) of the women not have rear suspension on their bikes then?  From your description, it would seem that it would help?  Or does it have something to do with the added weight?

PD

Everything I wrote was in theory. The hardtail would be 3-4 lbs lighter than the equivalent full suspension bike, that might be a preference for some people.

[Irons]

Sounds grave. What happened?

Here https://youtu.be/yaDnUVcxDfo?si=7S8i7iLVUuKa0MzF  I warn you a brutal watch. Not the place for gender politics, but if this is allowed then boxing should be dropped as an Olympic sport and I'm saying that as a boxing fan.

[Florestan]

Here https://youtu.be/yaDnUVcxDfo?si=7S8i7iLVUuKa0MzF

Video unavailable
This video contains content from International Olympic Committee, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.

Doesn't matter, I checked the media and learned about/watched the whole kerfuffle. It's absolutely intolerable. That the bearded woman has become a feature of Eurovision that has now spilled over into the Olympics opening ceremony, is one thing, bad enough; that women who are actually men by all hormonal and chromosomial standards are admitted to women competition is quite another, absolutely intolerable.

I've noticed long time ago that there are real women in volleyball, handball, basketball, tennis, table tennis, field hockey, swimming, rowing, athletics, fencing, shooting*, archery etc   --- whereas in box, judo, wrestling and weightlifting the alleged womanhood is quite uncertain in some cases. 

*my favorite in this respect is the Indian Manu Bhaker: such concentration and calmness combined with such an easy-on-the-eyes presence.

[Brian]

I'm sad to see misinformation being posted here. That woman was born a woman, with a female body, female organs and so forth. She comes from a country where transgenderism and gender non-conformity are crimes. She tested high for testosterone after her career was underway, and a genetic test was required to reveal the abnormality. Because most women do not become professional athletes, these conditions are more common than most people suppose, and that link (from pharmaceutical company Novo Nordisk) notes women going undiagnosed until age 34.

What this proves is not whether any one person is a "man" or not, but that gender is not as fixed or binary as people would have you believe. There are all sorts of interesting unusual genetic twists possible for humans. In this way the ancients had it right. And Shakespeare: there are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy...

[Florestan]

She tested high for testosterone after her career was underway, and a genetic test was required to reveal the abnormality

Yes, and right after the abnormality was revealed she should have been disqualified from women competition and allowed in men competition, if she so willed.

It has nothing at all to do with criminalizing trans-genderism (which is obviously not the case here) or gender-nonconformity I(whatever this might mean) and everything to do with fair play.

As for Shakespeare, as G. F. Lichtenberg put it, the reverse is also true: there are lots of things in one's philosophy of which there is no trace on heaven and earth...

[Brian]

Yes, and right after the abnormality was revealed she should have been disqualified from women competition and allowed in men competition, if she so willed.

Well, I disagree with that. She's still a woman. Entering a competition against men is not an option for a woman. If she has an unfair biological advantage, well, so do really tall basketball players, swimmers with huge shoulders... Andre the Giant is a prior example of someone with an advantage conferred by a genetic disorder.

[Florestan]

Entering a competition against men is not an option for a woman.

Exactly by this essentially correct token, entering a competition against Imane Kheliff is not an option for a woman, as Angela Carini's case clearly demonstrated. Kheliff is a woman who has manly power because of a biological abnormality --- and this confers her an unfair advantage over women who have womanly power because they are biologically normal. 

If you ask me, women boxing should have never been allowed officially at all.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree and move on, all the more so as neither you nor me can have the least say or influence on the matter.

[Jo498]

The boxer is most likely an xy-Person with a disorder of sexual development (and here probably "46,xy alpha 2 reductase" whatever) that leads to female looking external genitalia (thus identified and raised as a girl, esp. in 3 world/poorer countries) but with internal testes, thus male puberty and advantages vs. females wrt to bone structure, muscle mass, cardiovascular capacity and also male testosterone levels.

This is nothing new, women's sports have struggled with such individuals for quite a while. The most famous case being the south African 800m runner Caster Semenya who appeared from "nowhere" to win a world medal in 2009. It took over 10 years for World Athletics to eventually ban such athletes unless they medically reduce the testosteron levels. (Or at least I think that was the latest development).
This DSD condition is rare but not that rare and before the ban about 8-10 such athletes competed since 2009 in running events at international level.

Obviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)

This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.

[Florestan]

Obviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)

This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.

This, in spades.

[Brian]

If you ask me, women boxing should have never been allowed officially at all.

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree and move on, all the more so as neither you nor me can have the least say or influence on the matter.

That is good advice, and all I will say is that I don't enjoy or especially approve boxing even by men. Certainly I would not have known about the situation except for the usual political provocateurs who are looking for any excuse to foment division and debate.

[Florestan]

I don't enjoy or especially approve boxing even by men.

I don't enjoy contact sports either --- except rugby.

When it comes to women competition, my favorite sport is volleyball.

[Brian]

I don't enjoy contact sports either --- except rugby.

When it comes to women competition, my favorite sport is volleyball.

Rugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" 

[Florestan]

Rugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" 

They got it all wrong, it should be "Team Texas". 

[Atriod]

Rugby sevens has been one of my favorite discoveries of this Olympics. I would go to a rugby sevens game live. Looks like there is a Texas team in a professional league and its name is...I'm not making this up..."Texas Team" 

Before their third name change the NFL team Washington Commanders were simply Washington Football Team, I always thought they should have went with Washington Football Club ala European clubs and had a crest style logo.

If you like Sevens I can endorse Gaelic Football (less contact, more open ala Sevens) as quite fun to watch live if you're ever in Ireland.

[Wanderer]

The boxer is most likely an xy-Person with a disorder of sexual development (and here probably "46,xy alpha 2 reductase" whatever) that leads to female looking external genitalia (thus identified and raised as a girl, esp. in 3 world/poorer countries) but with internal testes, thus male puberty and advantages vs. females wrt to bone structure, muscle mass, cardiovascular capacity and also male testosterone levels.

This is nothing new, women's sports have struggled with such individuals for quite a while. The most famous case being the south African 800m runner Caster Semenya who appeared from "nowhere" to win a world medal in 2009. It took over 10 years for World Athletics to eventually ban such athletes unless they medically reduce the testosteron levels. (Or at least I think that was the latest development).
This DSD condition is rare but not that rare and before the ban about 8-10 such athletes competed since 2009 in running events at international level.

Obviously, for a contact sport it would be far more important to let those athletes not compete against normal biological women than in running, so this was a horrible blunder by the IOC as the boxing association had already banned the athlete last year because of high testosterone (and probably also a test that revealed she is xy).(FWIW the test is not a "degrading genital exam" but a swab in the mouth and/or blood test, less intrusive than obligatory doping tests.)

This is tough on these people but there is no human right to compete in professional sports *in the female class* that is a protected class. The fair thing is to test them as early as possible and not admit to events where they can beat up women.

Read this today:

Alan Abrahamson, an award winning sportswriter and previous columnist for NBC Sports says that he has seen the tests and letter in which the IBA concluded that the boxer, Imane Khelif has DNA which is that "of a male consisting of XY chromosomes."

Two separate tests were taken.  One in India in 2023 at the World Championships in New Delhi and a prior test in Turkey in 2022. 

The IBA (International Boxing Assoc) sent a letter to the IOC (International Olympic Committee) on June 5, 2023 informing them of the results of those tests.


"The New Delhi lab reports for both Khelif and Lin say the same thing:
Result Summary: "Abnormal"
Interpretation: "Chromosomal analysis reveals Male karyotype." 

"The lab results for each athlete depict the XY chromosomes photographically." 

The IBA disqualified those two athletes.

The IOC asserts both athletes were DQ'd without due process by the IBA. 

Yet they were given a chance to appeal the decisions. Yu Ting Lin did not appeal to the Swiss based court of arbitration. Khelif did but later withdrew the appeal. 

The letter of June 2023 from the IBA to the IOC, (referring solely to Khelif) states in part "We are kindly writing to offer our support and cooperation on the matter as it directly impacts the safety of our boxers and the integrity of the [competition] results. In confidence, the IBA can share that Imane Khelif was disqualified from the IBA Women's World Boxing Championships 2023 in New Delhi for breaching the IBA Technical and Competition Rules and was not medically eligible to participate in the event as a female boxer."

The letter directs the IOC to the attached lab reports."

[Pohjolas Daughter]

A great story here:  https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027385999/a-gold-medalist-returned-to-thank-the-volunteer-who-helped-him-make-his-race-on-

From what I heard (via watching live), she was also given a paid-for-trip to Jamaica I think by the Jamaican government--not certain re who offered it to her.   

PD

EDIT:  Ah, here we go:  https://www.businessinsider.com/olympic-volunteer-is-getting-an-all-expenses-paid-trip-jamaica-2021-8?op=1