I have recently found I am enjoying/appreciating LvB's 4th at a level that I never anticipated. Though I have a handful of 4th's within cycles, I do not recall ever purchasing a 4th with it being the primary focus of the purchase. In short, I have neglected this piece far too long when compared to his other eight symphonies and wondered what are some of your favorite recordings of what Schumann called:"a slender Greek maiden between two Norse gods".
Ozawa/BSO.
Accept no substitute.
Hogwood/ the Academy of Ancient Music
A perfect alternative.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-J%2ByMYFBL._SS500_.jpg)
I agree with Boris
AND
I will add Szell to the list.
In fact, I now think that ahead of even HvK's '63 cycle, Szell's set of the symphonies should be on everyone's shelf.
(However, be aware that I'm shooting from the HIP here) ;D
I share George's sentiments over the Szell set, but have always found the fourth from HvK '63 a real standout for me. Just ordered the Wand /Beethoven set (thanks for the heads up Anthony Athletic!), so will be interested to hear the fourth on that. Walter excellent, that disc with 4 and 6 is gorgeous.
My two favorites are Klemperer and Monteux.
Klemperer emphasizes the rhythm and structure, and the first movement transition is hair-raising. Monteux's is a gentler, more lyrical interpretation, but both are great ones.
Quote from: Bogey on October 18, 2007, 06:47:40 PM
[...] and wondered what are some of your favorite recordings of what Schumann called:"a slender Greek maiden between two Norse gods".
Noooo-t that quote! :P
In any case, Beethoven's stunning 4th! I'd say the Karajan/BPO (1963 - DG), and the very recent Vänskä/Minnesota (BIS) are a pair of excellent ones that spring to mind.
But I admit that, like with Brahms, Bruckner and Mahler, I have a (large) number of Beethoven cycles going around; so I'll check and see which other exceptional 4ths I can remember I have (possibly a Toscanini one, but my mind is slightly foggy at the moment), and get back to you. ;)
The 4th is, to me, one of the two or three greatest symphonies composed by Beethoven.
Bruno Walter with Columbia gave the version that I consider "nec plus ultra". The phrasing, the color (it all seems deep blue), even a certain tenderness.
For those who want a more structural approach, then Carlos Kleiber with the Bavarian State Orchestra is the best.
Also very good: Toscanini with the BBC (not the NBC), Karajan with the BPO (1962), Mravinsky with Leningrad. Not Furtwängler, I can't stand his heavy and tragic style in this work.
My favourite is the Klemperer. His tempi aren't particularly slow with this symphony (compared with the 5th that he almost brings to a standstill several times). Schumann got it wrong - It's far from a slender greek maiden. I've found it very forward looking and far less conservative than the 3rd and 5th. It doesn't even resolve into the definitive key of Bb major until about bar 50! (I may have to edit that, I'll look at the score!) What other symphony of those times dared do that sort of thing?
It resolves in Bb maj in bar 43.
.
Hmmm ... Beethoven's Fourth Symphony. A favourite of mine since I first heard it. That opening, so quiet and mysterious. And such joy throughout the work as a whole. Marvellous. But to buy a recording specifically of this symphony? No. Or more correctly, no need.
This is one work which I genuinely believe no interpreter can screw up. It's 'interpreter-proof', if you will. I've heard perhaps a dozen or more versions, and I can honestly say that each and every one has been a delight to listen to. It's for this reason that I say there's no need (for me, at least) to go hunting down a particular recording of this work.
So, this said, if I were forced to choose three 'favourite' recordings, they'd be these:
Sanderling | Philharmonia Orchestra (1981) - Not too quick, not too slow; errs on the side of a 'traditional' performance.
Mackerras | RLPO (1993) - Brisk and bright, like a spring morning; real contrast to the Sanderling.
Abbado | VPO (1988) - Has a broad feel to it, with tempi similar to the Sanderling; the strings have a greater weight and lustre.
Quote from: BorisG on October 18, 2007, 08:50:14 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-J%2ByMYFBL._SS500_.jpg)
This CD gives you two of Walter's greatest performances and also two of the best of those LvB Symphonies. This is a true desert island disc.
The only 4th I'd add to the list would be the Monteux/LSO
Quote from: Mark on October 19, 2007, 02:25:32 AM
Mackerras | RLPO (1993) - Brisk and bright, like a spring morning; real contrast to the Sanderling.
My favorite version. In fact the entire cycle is incredible.
I'm afraid this has never been one of my favorite Beethoven symphonies, mainly because the last two movements especially seem on a lower imaginative level than the first two. But there are some extraordinary things in those first two movements, perhaps above all in the first movement the slow introduction, and the return of the main theme of the Allegro over a sustained timpani roll already on the tonic Bb. For me the slow movement is the best thing in the symphony, and Toscanini (NBC, not just BBC) gets it just right, though his handling of the first movement is on the rough side. The tempo for the finale is a puzzlement: if you play it at Beethoven's metronome mark of 80 to the half note, it's at a breakneck speed, but the marking is Allegro ma non troppo.
Pletnev
This has long been one of my favourite Beethoven symphonies, though I do agree with Larry that the latter two movements operate at a lower level of inspiration than the first two.
I've never really connected with the Walter recording of it: currently Szell and Scherchen probably get more play with me than any other performances of the piece.
Quote from: Anancho on October 19, 2007, 02:06:13 AM
My favourite is the Klemperer. His tempi aren't particularly slow with this symphony (compared with the 5th that he almost brings to a standstill several times). Schumann got it wrong - It's far from a slender greek maiden. I've found it very forward looking and far less conservative than the 3rd and 5th. It doesn't even resolve into the definitive key of Bb major until about bar 50! (I may have to edit that, I'll look at the score!) What other symphony of those times dared do that sort of thing?
It resolves in Bb maj in bar 43.
.
You're the first person (well, perhaps not the first person - I can think of one other I won't name) whom I've heard describe the 3rd and 5th symphonies of Beethoven as conservative. But this is not the first time Beethoven has approached the tonic key of a movement obliquely: even in the 1st symphony, the introduction starts on V7 of IV, and in the Eb sonata op. 31/3 the first movement starts on the supertonic, which leads to some interesting harmonic compensations later on. But the fourth symphony, while is doesn't start in Bb in the major mode, starts on Bb as a key, though in the minor mode and with some remarkable harmonic adventures before leading itself back to Bb in the major at the Allegro.
As an Ohioan I am biased toward George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra!
Stravinsky , in one of his books with Robert Craft, also chose the Fourth as his favorite Beethoven symphony. Perhaps he liked its more "Olympian" qualities as opposed to the Sturm und Drang of its predecessor and successor.
Buy all of them. You can't have too many LvB symphony recordings. Personally, I own Vanska/Minnesota and Masur/Leipzig. I've owned others in the past as well...
If you want to actually hear all the notes instead of a gigantic, modernised mush: Gardiner.
Quote from: JoshLilly on October 19, 2007, 05:18:36 AM
If you want to actually hear all the notes instead of a gigantic, modernised mush: Gardiner.
I do not agree with your use of the phrase "modernised mush", but if I read your opinion correctly, would Hogwood do?
I didn't like the Hogwood version nearly as much as Gardiner, at least the one in his complete symphonies set. I don't know if he's recorded it elsewhere. But, it wasn't a modernised, noisy mush, either. He definitely didn't Mahlerise Beethoven like all the superfamous conductors and orchestras seem to do, which is a good thing.
Quote from: JoshLilly on October 19, 2007, 05:51:11 AM
He definitely didn't Mahlerise Beethoven like all the superfamous conductors and orchestras seem to do, which is a good thing.
What were they thinking?!
They were thinking "bigger is better", I guess. I dunno. I don't like it, though. Beethoven never composed his symphonies to be played by orchestras that big, with metal strings and padded timpani sticks and so on. It just sounds weird, like J.S. Bach keyboard music on electric guitar. Just weird to me.
Quote from: Bogey on October 18, 2007, 06:47:40 PM
In short, I have neglected this piece far too long
I am so pleased,
Bill, that you have corrected this insupportable state of affairs! 8)
Quote from: karlhenning on October 19, 2007, 06:13:27 AM
I am so pleased, Bill, that you have corrected this insupportable state of affairs! 8)
Nevertheless, admittedly, it
is perfectly valid to relegate LvB 4 to the bottom third of LvB's symphonic hierarchy ........
Quote from: D Minor on October 19, 2007, 06:24:14 AM
Nevertheless, admittedly, it is perfectly valid to relegate LvB 4 to the bottom third of LvB's symphonic hierarchy ........
Here are probably some meaningless numbers, but may lead to some further discussion of the 4th's ranking. I am sure one must keep in mind the "economic factor" of what "number" symphony is worth recording when looking at these. I do not let numbers dictate what I enjoy, but then again I have been known to be a slave to the raw data.
Approximate Number of Recordings in Print*
Symphony no 5 in C minor, Op. 67 (238)
Symphony no 9 in D minor, Op. 125 "Choral" (218)
Symphony no 3 in E flat major, Op. 55 "Eroica" (207)
Symphony no 7 in A major, Op. 92 (207)
Symphony no 6 in F major, Op. 68 "Pastoral" (180)
Symphony no 8 in F major, Op. 93 (151)
Symphony no 4 in B flat major, Op. 60 (142)=about 9%
Symphony no 1 in C major, Op. 21 (140)
Symphony no 2 in D major, Op. 36 (137)
*Numbers based on what is available at ArkivMusic.com
I am guessing that if one removed all the "complete cycles" from the list of possible purchases of the 4th, the
percentage of 4th's availability would decline even more so. Just a guess. The only suprising thing to me is the dead heat between 3 and 7. I would have thought 3 to be well ahead.
Quote from: karlhenning on October 19, 2007, 06:13:27 AM
I am so pleased, Bill, that you have corrected this insupportable state of affairs! 8)
That is why I
never relegate music to the dust bin only after a few listens Karl. :)
(Though my Mahler symphonies are on the cusp. ;D)
I'd put 7 above 3, but otherwise the raw data looks about right.
[Edit: Oh, and I'd put 9 at the top]
*mutters darkly about the low ranking of the 8th on that list*
Quote from: JoshLilly on October 19, 2007, 05:18:36 AM
If you want to actually hear all the notes instead of a gigantic, modernised mush: Gardiner.
You hear all the notes and that's it - nothing else! No inspiration, joy, warmth, pathos, excitement - it's all missing with JEG
Quote from: Larry Rinkel on October 19, 2007, 04:05:11 AM
I'm afraid this has never been one of my favorite Beethoven symphonies, mainly because the last two movements especially seem on a lower imaginative level than the first two.
For once I agree with Larry, and for the same reason. Interesting enough my favorites have been mentioned already above. These are Klemperer (Philharmonia), Walter (Columbia or New York), Mackerras (Liverpool) and Hogwood. Very good too is Idile Biret´s interpretation of Liszt´s piano transcription of this Symphony.
Quote from: Mark on October 19, 2007, 02:25:32 AM
Mackerras | RLPO (1993) - Brisk and bright, like a spring morning...
When I put together my complete Beethoven, I did some intense comparative listening of every version I owned of the symphonies, and in the 4th, this came out the winner by an appreciable margin. Clearly my favorite, although I certainly haven't heard more than a dozen versions of it... :)
8)
----------------
Now playing: Fesca A Piano Septets - Linos Ensemble - Fesca Alex Septet #2 in d for Piano, Strings & Winds Op 28 1st mvmt
Having spun last night Masur's outing with the Leipzig Gewandhaus, I can confirm it's not one which I think people need to hear. ;)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 19, 2007, 06:44:09 PM
When I put together my complete Beethoven, I did some intense comparative listening of every version I owned of the symphonies, and in the 4th, this came out the winner by an appreciable margin. Clearly my favorite, although I certainly haven't heard more than a dozen versions of it... :)
Gurn, without intending to dish out advice, I think you need to invest in the
Mackerras 2007 cycle. Don't you?
Quote from: D Minor on October 20, 2007, 05:35:24 AM
I think you need to invest in the Mackerras 2007 cycle.
Oh wow, have you heard it? Any thoughts? Darn it, I've got to come up with another $50.
Quote from: hornteacher on October 20, 2007, 05:42:25 AM
Oh wow, have you heard it? Any thoughts? Darn it, I've got to come up with another $50.
No, I haven't heard it. FWIW (not much, I reckon),
Hurwitz has reviewed both and prefers the 2007 cycle.
Quote from: hornteacher on October 20, 2007, 05:42:25 AM
Darn it, I've got to come up with another $50.
That's why I want
Gurn to buy it ....... so he can be the Guinea pig ........
This is becoming predictable but, again I have to name:
Kletzki/CzPO, Jochum/RCO and Furtwängler/BPO ('43 live). 8)
Q
Quote from: Que on October 20, 2007, 07:17:23 AM
This is becoming predictable
Pierre Monteux / London Symphony Orchestra (Decca)
Quote from: D Minor on October 20, 2007, 05:35:24 AM
Gurn, without intending to dish out advice, I think you need to invest in the Mackerras 2007 cycle. Don't you?
Well, d, I was waiting for you to get them both and do some serious comparative listening, and them make a rec. This would save me some $$ if the new one isn't better... :)
8)
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Now playing: London Baroque / Medlam - Bach JS BWV 1036 Sonata in d for Flute, Violin & BC 2nd mvmt - Allegro
Quote from: Holden on October 19, 2007, 02:30:48 PM
You hear all the notes and that's it - nothing else! No inspiration, joy, warmth, pathos, excitement - it's all missing with JEG
I don't get the praise for Gardiner's Beethoven. To me it's like a pretty clockwork.
Last night I listened to Zinman's 4th and was more than satisfied. All the liveliness and color that JEG lacks. I don't pretend to expertise and I'm more a listener than a collector, but I do own several recordings of the fourth in LvB cycles and this thread has encouraged me to give the 4th more attention. And I'll be interested to hear what Gurn & D make of the new Mackerras. ;D
Quote from: Que on October 20, 2007, 07:17:23 AM
This is becoming predictable but, again I have to name:
Kletzki/CzPO, Jochum/RCO and Furtwängler/BPO ('43 live). 8)
Q
Oh, yes! That one is truly excellent.
And now that I've finally got the Kletzki cycle, I can
disagree with you, here: even though the cycle is quite an exceptional one, I found the 4th dragging. :(
(Unless it was my mood that was foul, in which case we'll know soon enough. I've only gone through the cycle once, so far. ;))
Quote from: Renfield on October 20, 2007, 08:50:51 AM
And now that I've finally got the Kletzki cycle, I can disagree with you, here: even though the cycle is quite an exceptional one
So you like it? :)
I'll refresh my memory of the 4th! ;D
Q
Quote from: Que on October 20, 2007, 08:55:08 AM
So you like it? :)
I'll refresh my memory of the 4th! ;D
Q
I do! It made quite an impression on me, and a bigger one than even the "shock and awe" Gardiner cycle (which I also recently bought). Surely, Kletzki and his players "had something special going", in that cycle. 8)
Quote from: D Minor on October 20, 2007, 05:48:14 AM
That's why I want Gurn to buy it ....... so he can be the Guinea pig ........
Or rather, the Gurney pig ........
Quote from: premont on October 19, 2007, 06:23:05 PM
For once I agree with Larry, and for the same reason.
Just this once, Mr. Premont? With such an encouraging comment, who knows that I might not post again? :D
This symphony finally captured my attention a few years ago (probably when I heard it at a concert) and I started listening to it more often than I had previously. It may not be Beethoven's most popular, but it has grown on me. Like some of the others here, I prefer the smaller orchestras to the large modern ones that tend to muddle things up a bit. With this symphony, it seems especially important. In the realm of the smaller orchestras, I have performances by Hogwood, Gardiner, and Goodman/Hanover Band. So far, I like Hogwood's best, but I haven't done detailed comparisons. The Hanover Band recording has a lot of reverb that manages to muddle the music even though the performance is reasonably clear.
Heather
My absolute favourite
(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16698g.jpg)
I'm not generally a fan of the way Barenboim stretches out Beethoven's symphonies to disproportionate lengths, but I have to put in a good word for what he's done for the Fourth with Staatskapelle Berlin. I'm re-listening to it now, and I'm finding that his interpretation makes good sense, despite the much-slower-than-Mackerras tempi. Yes, it's 'big band', but in a good way. He gives this 'slender Greek maiden' a more muscular tone, making her more a warrior than a wife. Not a bad recorded sound, either.
Quote from: wilhelm on October 20, 2007, 03:18:51 PM
My absolute favourite
(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16698g.jpg)
Mine too....and for something completely different, these versions get a lot of play also:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/BeBar.jpg)
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/ngmg/Beeth4Nor.jpg)
Sarge
Quote from: Heather Harrison on October 20, 2007, 03:05:32 PM
The Hanover Band recording has a lot of reverb that manages to muddle the music even though the performance is reasonably clear.
The recorded sound of that cycle makes me cry :'(
Quote from: Lethe on October 21, 2007, 05:48:27 AM
The recorded sound of that cycle makes me cry :'(
Sounds like a good reason to avoid it. ;)
Quote from: Lethe on October 21, 2007, 05:48:27 AM
The recorded sound of that cycle makes me cry :'(
It wouldn't be so sad if the performances weren't so damned good. What the hell were they thinking in the booth ???
8)
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Now playing: Beethoven 9ths - Minnesota Orchestra/Vanska - Beethoven Symphony #9 in d Op 125 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on October 21, 2007, 08:40:38 AM
It wouldn't be so sad if the performances weren't so damned good. What the hell were they thinking in the booth ???
Agreed. Beneath the muddled atmosphere, there are some very good performances in that cycle. It makes me wonder if one could do some advanced digital signal processing on the recording to remove the unwanted effects. However, I know just enough about digital signal processing to be dangerous, and I know it would be a difficult problem.
Heather
Best Beethoven 4th in captivity. The joyousness of the music making is overwhelming.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SS500_.jpg)
Quote from: Iago on October 21, 2007, 10:45:39 AM
Best Beethoven 4th in captivity. The joyousness of the music making is overwhelming.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SS500_.jpg)
This performance made me dance and jump around my seat, literally.
Howard
A good, (but not quite equal to the Kleiber/COA) performance is
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418FE084KYL._SS500_.jpg)
My absolute favourite is the Bav. St. O/C. Kleiber on Orfeo.
Is the Concertgebouworkest/C. Kleiber Philips DVD even better? Opinions please!
Quote from: Valentino on October 21, 2007, 11:17:59 AM
My absolute favourite is the Bav. St. O/C. Kleiber on Orfeo.
Is the Concertgebouworkest/C. Kleiber Philips DVD even better? Opinions please!
Absolutely!!
And watching Kleiber visually communicate with his orchestra while at the same time evoking a masterful performance cannot be bettered.
Quote from: Valentino on October 21, 2007, 11:17:59 AM
My absolute favourite is the Bav. St. O/C. Kleiber on Orfeo.
Is the Concertgebouworkest/C. Kleiber Philips DVD even better? Opinions please!
Simply a better orchestra at that particular time frame, the Concertgebouw delivers. What a stunning woodwind section!
Howard
Quote from: Que on October 20, 2007, 08:55:08 AM
So you like it? :)
I'll refresh my memory of the 4th! ;D
Q
So which symphonies are the high points of this cycle? I think I would like to sample one or two CD's.
Quote from: rubio on October 22, 2007, 08:26:44 AM
So which symphonies are the high points of this cycle? I think I would like to sample one or two CD's.
They come in pairs (or in one Japanese box set): 1-3; 4-6; 7-9.
The last symphonies seem a good place to start. :)
Q
Quote from: Cato on October 19, 2007, 05:08:10 AM
As an Ohioan I am biased toward George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra!
Stravinsky , in one of his books with Robert Craft, also chose the Fourth as his favorite Beethoven symphony. Perhaps he liked its more "Olympian" qualities as opposed to the Sturm und Drang of its predecessor and successor.
I am from Chicago, and I have never been in Ohio. But I must say a preference for George Szell & the Cleveland Orchestra in many things is not bias. Its just good taste.
However, while Szell is good here, I still say that in the 4th, Klemperer & Monteux are best. Szell is at his best in the last four Beethoven symphonies, IMO.
I just listened to the Paavo Jarvi recording of the 4th, 1st Movement - and I am amazed at how he is able to produce such a phenomonal ensemble at the quick tempo he takes in the first movement's Allegro. The music jumps out at me and I find myself smiling as I am swept along with the pulse he creates.
Very exciting recording, and very enjoyable!
Quote from: wilhelm on October 20, 2007, 03:18:51 PM
My absolute favourite
(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16698g.jpg)
Mine too. No contest there.
Are you sure Ozawa recorded the 4th with the BSO? I don't recall any such version. Ozawa did record the 5th with them for Telarc, a pretty good but not transcendent one.
Ozawa has yet to make an integral set of the Beethoven symphonies, and I don't recall him ever recording the fourth.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21CR643RC7L._SL500_AA130_.jpg)
I think this 4th is fantastic.
I have three that I think are terrific.
Ansermet, SRO--Ansermet's Beethoven symphonies are surprisingly good, and 3, 4, and 7 are standouts. The recording is excellent, too.
Liebowitz, RPO--reissued on Chesky. All his Beethoven symphonies are great, and the 4th is as good as it gets, I think. It's also very well recorded.
Suitner, Staatskapelle Berlin--a wonderful 4th, very well recorded, one of the highlights of his set.
I see Franco's praise for P. Järvi's 4th has jump-started this moribund thread. Good! I like the 4th more and more as time goes on--partly perhaps due to overexposure to the 3rd, 5th, & 7th (& especially the 9th!). And if I keep hearing good reports about Mr. Järvi's Beethoven I might just have to rush out an buy the damned cycle! (Youtube vids of performances prior to the recordings sound as if the praise is well deserved--still, I already own several other cycles that please me greatly.)
Think I might try a bit of comparative listening to some, i.e. Abbado, Vänskä, Immerseel, Brüggen, Gardiner, Szell, Zinman, and maybe even Böhm if I get that far along before tiring of it and feel like firing up the turntable. Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe Böhm would be a good place to start, since I've probably not heard that in years!
(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16698g.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Two great performances of the 4th.......
It would be very good idea to get the Kleiber DVD with Beethoven 4,7 for almost same price as the Orfeo CD with only the 4th while easily available. Performances of these 4ths are only 1 year apart, DVD filmed 1983 at Concertgebouw Hall Amsterdam.
Kleiber is very energetic and animated on the podium, the Concertgebouw has almost surround seating..........looks unusual to see people sitting behind the orchestra
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 27, 2010, 05:14:13 AM
the Concertgebouw has almost surround seating..........looks unusual to see people sitting behind the orchestra
Certainly the Berlin Philharmonie does, to quite an effect. :)
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 27, 2010, 05:14:13 AM
Kleiber is very energetic and animated on the podium, the Concertgebouw has almost surround seating..........looks unusual to see people sitting behind the orchestra
Many concert halls have seats under the organ. They're cheaper and some people claim to enjoy watching the conductor's face etc.
Quote from: Renfield on February 27, 2010, 06:03:25 AM
Certainly the Berlin Philharmonie does, to quite an effect. :)
As does the San Francisco Symphony in Davies Hall.
Quote from: DavidRoss on February 26, 2010, 06:28:14 AMThink I might try a bit of comparative listening to some, i.e. Abbado, Vänskä, Immerseel, Brüggen, Gardiner, Szell, Zinman, and maybe even Böhm if I get that far along before tiring of it and feel like firing up the turntable. Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe Böhm would be a good place to start, since I've probably not heard that in years!
Well, I listened to several recordings of the 4th yesterday. Tops, for me, were Brüggen, Immerseel, Harnoncourt, Gardiner, and Zinman. Abbado/BP/Rome and Vänskä didn't measure up, not brisk and agile and rough enough to suit me. (Didn't spin Szell or Böhm or anyone else.)
The big surprise for me was not that I liked Brüggen best, but that both Immerseel and Harnoncourt measured up so well in comparison...and that despite the comparative briskness of Zinman's opening, he still managed to convey much of that sense of slow mysteriousness that Brüggen & Harnoncourt excelled at.
edit: BTW, does anyone else feel a kinship between this symphony and Mendelssohn's sunny 4th?
Quote from: Scarpia on February 27, 2010, 07:31:48 AM
As does the San Francisco Symphony in Davies Hall.
As does Orchestra Hall in Chicago. It was my favorite place to sit there, mainly because of the "inside view" and the more visceral thump of the percussion.
Quote from: DavidRoss on February 27, 2010, 08:37:29 AM
and that despite the comparative briskness of Zinman's opening, he still managed to convey much of that sense of slow mysteriousness that Brüggen & Harnoncourt excelled at.
Haven't heard many versions of this piece, but I've enjoyed that Zinman version for years (and the Eroica on the same disc ain't bad either).
Time to give this 4th another spin:
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/da/21/e4507220eca0b67918cc5010.L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Hey, Bill--just listened to Hogwood's 4th, and though the opening is a bit sluggish for my tastes, otherwise it shares the general virtues of clarity and liveliness that I enjoy so much in most HIP performances.
Quote from: DavidRoss on February 27, 2010, 03:42:08 PM
Hey, Bill--just listened to Hogwood's 4th, and though the opening is a bit sluggish for my tastes, otherwise it shares the general virtues of clarity and liveliness that I enjoy so much in most HIP performances.
I also think he gets the job done, David. However, the Harnoncourt set once again rises to the top....might just have to add it to the shelf down the road here, but trying to stay with stuff I do not have of composers I do not have.
Later I spun Szell/CO--excellent! The only big band 4th I've heard that competes with the smaller HIP orchestras in nimbleness and grace and infectious joie de vivre. Followed up with Barenboim--couldn't take it. The orchestra's playing was lovely, but the pacing was so sluggish and ponderous that instead of recalling Schumann's "slender Greek maiden" it brought to mind Disney's tutu-wearing hippos!
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/melodiyamelcd1001112.jpg)
Live recording: Berlin, 27.06.1943/BPO
Giving the above 4th a spin...great ride so far!
Quote from: Bogey on February 28, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/melodiyamelcd1001112.jpg)
Live recording: Berlin, 27.06.1943/BPO
Giving the above 4th a spin...great ride so far!
I love this one. Organic, as ever from Furtwängler, and vital.
Quote from: DarkAngel on February 27, 2010, 05:14:13 AM
(http://www.orfeo-international.de/covers/16698g.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41AHMDB7P8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Two great performances of the 4th.......
It would be very good idea to get the Kleiber DVD with Beethoven 4,7 for almost same price as the Orfeo CD with only the 4th while easily available. Performances of these 4ths are only 1 year apart, DVD filmed 1983 at Concertgebouw Hall Amsterdam.
Kleiber is very energetic and animated on the podium, the Concertgebouw has almost surround seating..........looks unusual to see people sitting behind the orchestra
I may...just may....have a new favorite for the 4th:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Kas9xFrL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Quote from: Bogey on February 14, 2014, 05:06:20 PM
I may...just may....have a new favorite for the 4th:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Kas9xFrL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Could be my favorite as well. Kleiber certainly nails it. Don't remember it exactly, but Jim Svejda's comment on this performance went something like: "That slender Greek maiden must have been one hell of a girl".
I also like Walter Columbia, Harnoncourt, Szell, and Norrington LCP. And, well, Bernstein NY too.
(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/melodiyamelcd1001112.jpg)
Just took in this one again yesterday. Kleiber still wins.
As I was saying elsewhere, I think the greatest Beethoven 4th I know is Mengelberg.
Quote from: Cosi bel do on February 16, 2014, 02:40:22 PM
As I was saying elsewhere, I think the greatest Beethoven 4th I know is Mengelberg.
Must grab one.
...so no one's mentioned Lenny's NYPO or Wiener recodings? ???
also, there's something special about Kubelik/Israel PO i can't quite locate
after that, Leibowitz, Monteux, and Rattle finish off the essentials ;D