Here they are,
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Zh%C3%A9.svg/120px-Zh%C3%A9.svg.png)
It means "The motion of a flying dragon", and has 52 strokes. Pronounced "Zhe", in 2nd intonation Mandarin.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/N%C3%A0ng.svg/120px-N%C3%A0ng.svg.png)
It means "poor enunciation due to snuffle", and has 36 strokes. Pronounced "nang", in 4th intonation Mandarin.
And here it is, the most complex of all....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Bi%C3%A1ng.svg/120px-Bi%C3%A1ng.svg.png)
It is simply a kind of noodle,popular in China's Shaanxi province. Has 57 strokes. Pronounced "Biang", in 2nd intonation Mandarin.
This is just a sidekick: A Japanese kanji that has an astounding total of 84 strokes.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Taito_2_l.png/120px-Taito_2_l.png)
It also describes the motion of a flying dragon, and in Japanese it is pronounced "taito". The character consists of three "cloud" chracters layered on top of three "dragons". It is pretty fascinating to imagine three dragons flying in three pieces of clouds, don't ya think?
Now let's all learn to write these 4 amazing characters! :D
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 12, 2008, 12:24:29 AM
Here they are,
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Zh%C3%A9.svg/120px-Zh%C3%A9.svg.png)
It means "The motion of a flying dragon", and has 52 strokes. Pronounced "Zhe", in 2nd intonation Mandarin.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/N%C3%A0ng.svg/120px-N%C3%A0ng.svg.png)
It means "poor enunciation due to snuffle", and has 36 strokes. Pronounced "nang", in 4th intonation Mandarin.
And here it is, the most complex of all....
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Bi%C3%A1ng.svg/120px-Bi%C3%A1ng.svg.png)
It is simply a kind of noodle,popular in China's Shaanxi province. Has 57 strokes. Pronounced "Biang", in 2nd intonation Mandarin.
This is just a sidekick: A Japanese kanji that has an astounding total of 84 strokes.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Taito_2_l.png/120px-Taito_2_l.png)
It also describes the motion of a flying dragon, and in Japanese it is pronounced "taito". The character consists of three "cloud" chracters layered on top of three "dragons". It is pretty fascinating to imagine three dragons flying in three pieces of clouds, don't ya think?
Now let's all learn to write these 4 amazing characters! :D
It is also interesting that the 4 dragon character has a mandarin pronunciation, I wonder whether the same script is used (in mainland China) using the simplified version of "Dragon" as opposed to the traditional version.
"Nang" is a quite common word, it's one of those more "medical" terms. Interesting, that in Chinese language the more obscure a word is, the more complex it gets (makes sense right?).
"Biang" is seldom (or never) used in books. I think you can figure why that is. But, you tend to see that only in restaurants where they serve noodles, I think it functions less as a writing tool, but more as a business sign.
The last one, I have never seen this one. It's interesting, I have never seen it in any text nor on signs or anywhere. In fact, this is the first time i have seen this unique character. Again, this is probably never used in a practical way.
Nowadys, with simplified Chinese, you seldom see these types anymore. It's perhaps easier for people to learn the language.
We can assume, then, that flying dragons are quite abundant in China?
Quote from: Dm on January 12, 2008, 03:28:40 AM
We can assume, then, that flying dragons are quite abundant in China?
quite, they all sort come out during Chinese New Year celebrations.
Here's a big question:
I know they do do it, but how can a picture make a speakable word? In English, you make a 'D' sound when you see the 'D'. You can't make mouth movements to those characters, or can you?
How does it work?
Quote from: 12tone. on January 12, 2008, 10:00:30 AM
Here's a big question:
I know they do do it, but how can a picture make a speakable word? In English, you make a 'D' sound when you see the 'D'. You can't make mouth movements to those characters, or can you?
How does it work?
well, it doesn't ;D
That's why it is a very difficult language to learn. You must memorized the pronunciation character by character. I remember when I was in elementary school, we used to learn nothing but characters, it's pronunciations, usage, meaning, etc... about 150-200 a year, at the end of 6th grade, average students have probably memorized more than a thousand characters. Of course, it varies, some are more prodigious than others, some like to read more, and hence they get to learn more characters.
This is also why, if you travel in China, you get all sort of confusing dialects. The extreme example is Beijing dialect (mandarin) and the Guangdong dialect (Cantonese), you basically need an interpretor if both people are going to have a conversation. The less extreme example is say, two villages in the Jiangsu province for instance. Even though they are only 100 km away from each other, they have different pronunciations for certain words, or even in many cases, different words that exists only in that particular dialect, confusing right?
Quote from: Gustav on January 12, 2008, 10:16:04 AM
well, it doesn't ;D
That's why it is a very difficult language to learn. You must memorized the pronunciation character by character. I remember when I was in elementary school, we used to learn nothing but characters, it's pronunciations, usage, meaning, etc... about 150-200 a year, at the end of 6th grade, average students have probably memorized more than a thousand characters. Of course, it varies, some are more prodigious than others, some like to read more, and hence they get to learn more characters.
This is also why, if you travel in China, you get all sort of confusing dialects. The extreme example is Beijing dialect (mandarin) and the Guangdong dialect (Cantonese), you basically need an interpretor if both people are going to have a conversation. The less extreme example is say, two villages in the Jiangsu province for instance. Even though they are only 100 km away from each other, they have different pronunciations for certain words, or even in many cases, different words that exists only in that particular dialect, confusing right?
Gustav you seem to be quite knowledgeable on the Chinese language...are you a native?
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 12, 2008, 11:14:48 AM
Gustav you seem to be quite knowledgeable on the Chinese language...are you a native?
no, I lived there for the early part of my life, that's all.
Quote from: Gustav on January 12, 2008, 11:27:00 AM
no, I lived there for the early part of my life, that's all.
One thing though, you said all characters' pronounciation must be memorized separately. That is not entirely true. Pictophonetic compounds (形聲字) represents the largest group of characters in modern Chinese. Characters of this sort are composed of two parts: a pictograph, which suggests the general meaning of the character, and a phonetic part, which is derived from a character pronounced in the same way as the word the new character represents. Examples are 河 (hé) river, 湖 (hú) lake, 流 (liú) stream, 冲 (chōng) riptide, 滑 (huá) slippery. All these characters have on the left a radical of three dots, which is a simplified pictograph for a water drop, indicating that the character has a semantic connection with water; the right-hand side in each case is a phonetic indicator. For example, in the case of 冲 (chōng), the phonetic indicator is 中 (zhōng), which by itself means middle. so it can be seen that the pronunciation of the character has diverged from that of its phonetic indicator; this process means that the composition of such characters can sometimes seem arbitrary today. Further, the choice of radicals may also seem arbitrary in some cases; for example, the radical of 貓 (māo) cat is 豸 (zhì), originally a pictograph for worms, but in characters of this sort indicating an animal of any sort.
You can guess a lot of word's pronounciations by looking at what phonetical compounds are present in it.
Quote from: Gustav on January 12, 2008, 10:16:04 AM
if you travel in China, you get all sort of confusing dialects. The extreme example is Beijing dialect (mandarin) and the Guangdong dialect (Cantonese), you basically need an interpretor if both people are going to have a conversation. *** Even though they are only 100 km away from each other, they have different pronunciations for certain words, or even in many cases, different words that exists only in that particular dialect, confusing right?
How utterly frustrating. :o
(((I think I'll scrap my plans of learning Cantonese and Mandarin Chinese ............)))
Quote from: Dm on January 12, 2008, 05:21:37 PM
How utterly frustrating. :o
(((I think I'll scrap my plans of learning Cantonese and Mandarin Chinese ............)))
On to Norwegian!
Quote from: Dm on January 12, 2008, 05:35:35 PM
First on my list: FINNISH ........
Seriously? Cool.
I went through Youtube listening to all the Scandinavian Languages and heard Finnish. I know it's not related to them but what a sound! Some really strange sounds go on there which to me sounds extremely hard to mimic. Finnish sounds nice though. My favorite is Icelandic.
So what's after Finnish then?
After Finnish comes Icelandic ..........
Quote from: Dm on January 12, 2008, 05:39:08 PM
After Finnish comes Icelandic ..........
Yaaaaay!!!! Hvernig segir maður "That is sweet!" á íslensku?
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 12, 2008, 05:14:42 PM
One thing though, you said all characters' pronounciation must be memorized separately. That is not entirely true. Pictophonetic compounds (形聲字) represents the largest group of characters in modern Chinese. Characters of this sort are composed of two parts: a pictograph, which suggests the general meaning of the character, and a phonetic part, which is derived from a character pronounced in the same way as the word the new character represents. Examples are 河 (hé) river, 湖 (hú) lake, 流 (liú) stream, 冲 (chōng) riptide, 滑 (huá) slippery. All these characters have on the left a radical of three dots, which is a simplified pictograph for a water drop, indicating that the character has a semantic connection with water; the right-hand side in each case is a phonetic indicator. For example, in the case of 冲 (chōng), the phonetic indicator is 中 (zhōng), which by itself means middle. so it can be seen that the pronunciation of the character has diverged from that of its phonetic indicator; this process means that the composition of such characters can sometimes seem arbitrary today. Further, the choice of radicals may also seem arbitrary in some cases; for example, the radical of 貓 (māo) cat is 豸 (zhì), originally a pictograph for worms, but in characters of this sort indicating an animal of any sort.
You can guess a lot of word's pronounciations by looking at what phonetical compounds are present in it.
Yes, what you say is correct. You still need to memorize the basic character though.
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 12, 2008, 05:14:42 PM
You can guess a lot of word's pronounciations by looking at what phonetical compounds are present in it.
That's true, but often times, the more obscure/difficult the meaning of a character is, the less it is likely for that character to follow this rule.
Quote from: 12tone. on January 12, 2008, 05:37:42 PM
I went through Youtube listening to all the Scandinavian Languages and heard Finnish. I know it's not related to them but what a sound! Some really strange sounds go on there which to me sounds extremely hard to mimic. Finnish sounds nice though. My favorite is Icelandic.
no, not too hard, really- just 2 odd vowels not similar to English which may make it sound strange. Besides that, not extremely difficult to speak compared to something like Mandarin (Finnish even has the same stress- first syllable- on each word!) So the difficulty has more to do with the difficult case system and fact that it's a non-IndoEuropean language.
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 12, 2008, 05:14:42 PM
One thing though, you said all characters' pronounciation must be memorized separately. That is not entirely true. Pictophonetic compounds (形聲字) represents the largest group of characters in modern Chinese. Characters of this sort are composed of two parts: a pictograph, which suggests the general meaning of the character, and a phonetic part, which is derived from a character pronounced in the same way as the word the new character represents. Examples are 河 (hé) river, 湖 (hú) lake, 流 (liú) stream, 冲 (chōng) riptide, 滑 (huá) slippery. All these characters have on the left a radical of three dots, which is a simplified pictograph for a water drop, indicating that the character has a semantic connection with water; the right-hand side in each case is a phonetic indicator. For example, in the case of 冲 (chōng), the phonetic indicator is 中 (zhōng), which by itself means middle. so it can be seen that the pronunciation of the character has diverged from that of its phonetic indicator; this process means that the composition of such characters can sometimes seem arbitrary today. Further, the choice of radicals may also seem arbitrary in some cases; for example, the radical of 貓 (māo) cat is 豸 (zhì), originally a pictograph for worms, but in characters of this sort indicating an animal of any sort.
You can guess a lot of word's pronounciations by looking at what phonetical compounds are present in it.
that's exactly what i think of when i want to cheat to look up a Japanese word ;D
i remember a character just like the new one i see, but with a different radical/no radical.... then i type in the reading, scroll down the list, and it's almost always there! ;D
Quote from: 12tone. on January 12, 2008, 05:48:23 PM
Yaaaaay!!!! Hvernig segir maður "That is sweet!" á íslensku?
I was going to learn Greenlandic (Kalaallisut), but since Greenland will virtually disappear in roughly 50 years (because of global warming), there isn't much future in that language ........
Quote from: Dm on January 14, 2008, 06:09:53 AM
I was going to learn Greenlandic (Kalaallisut), but since Greenland will virtually disappear in roughly 50 years (because of global warming), there isn't much future in that language ........
:o
that's a hilarious observation
(applause)
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 14, 2008, 05:32:05 AM
no, not too hard, really- just 2 odd vowels not similar to English which may make it sound strange. Besides that, not extremely difficult to speak compared to something like Mandarin (Finnish even has the same stress- first syllable- on each word!) So the difficulty has more to do with the difficult case system and fact that it's a non-IndoEuropean language.
Cool stuff. Know anything about Danish, Norwegian, Swedish or Icelandic?
Quote from: 12tone. on January 14, 2008, 03:45:10 PM
Cool stuff. Know anything about Danish, Norwegian, Swedish or Icelandic?
Nope, not really ;D
I wish i had time to learn Danish, then i'd practice it with Mikkel.... i have made some observations about those languages, though- they have tons of cognates but they aren't obvious until you realize what it means! Like bog=book, who would've guessed, yet you can see the relations anyways. :o
As for Icelandic, that's one language that's been isolated for years, so it's much different compared to Danish-Norwegian-Swedish, but i think it might be the language that's closer to how the Vikings must've spoken (that's what i think i read?)
chinese language is very inefficient. waste of time. they should stick to an alphabet
Quote from: маразм1 on January 15, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
chinese language is very inefficient. waste of time. they should stick to an alphabet
the only problem would be distinguishing the synonyms..... oh, wait, how do they distinguish the synonyms in speech? hmmmmmm context maybe?
it's not going to change, but still, you have nearby countries- Korea uses a simple alphabet of their own and Vietnamese uses the alphabet, and both have used Chinese characters but don't normally anymore. i wonder why ;D
as i said before, Japanese doesn't need them either, as long as there are spaces between words (if not, they desperately need them lol).....
i can understand this easily here, no problems:
わたし が からめとった おとこ で ございます か？ これ は たしか に たじょうまる と いう、 なだかい ぬすびと で ございます。 もっと も わたし が からめとった とき に は、 うま から おちた の で ございましょう、 あわだぐち の いしばし の うえ に、 うんうん うなって おりました。
or
Watashi ga karametotta otoko de gozaimasu ka? Kore wa tashika ni Tajoumaru to iu, nadakai nusubito de gozaimasu. Motto mo Watashi ga karametotta toki ni wa, uma kara ochita no de gozaimashou, Awadaguchi no Ishibashi no ue ni, unun to unatte orimashita.
but instead they have to make it difficult, like this:
私が搦め取った男でございますか？ これは確かに多襄丸という、 名高い盗人でございます。 尤も私が搦め取った時に は、馬から落ちたのでございましょう、粟田口の石橋の上に、 うんうん唸っておりました。
I'd prefer the first example, with pure hiragana, since it's the most efficient.
Quote from: Dm on January 14, 2008, 06:09:53 AM
I was going to learn Greenlandic (Kalaallisut), but since Greenland will virtually disappear in roughly 50 years (because of global warming), there isn't much future in that language ........
And all the modern world can do about this Monsterous situation is just watch.
I know this is not the topic to discuss this meltdown crisis but since we are talking about the beautiful chinese written expression, china has a large share in this global warming process, due to a economic growth ate of 12% /yr and few controls on pollution measures. Of course its true Every country has its share in the disaster.
But its not like we were not forwarned on this meltdown. Jacques Cousteau told us of these possible consequences of modern industrialization long before anyone took notice of the actual polar measurements.
Now that The Great Machine is set in motion, its like that chinese dragon in mythology, just waiting for any opportunity to swallow the hero. Hero here being the wonders of modern living for the over-populated planet.
Here's a ancedote. My acupuncturist here in NO, is like 3rd + generation doctor from china, and is one of the very finest at his practice, even works his "magic' at Tulane Hospital.
I am not sure, but I get this hunch that before he comes in to see me, he's up to something next room over.
I'm beginning to think,,,and now clearly recall from his previous office he had these "activities" going on in a 'special room'...that he's works the I Ching before he sees the patient. For him this long established book of wisdom, seeing with the inner eye, provides details on each patient that facilitates his choice of the points for needle positions. Back pain dissolves after a few visits, no need to consider surgery. But one must do ones part, and correct the thinking pattern.
Richard Wilhelm and CG Jung worked on a book about the mysteries of the I Ching. I've yet to read.
I wonder what kind of symbols come forth from the I Ching concerning the global meltdown?
Don't want to know. I wonder how our grandchildren are gonna take the things we did to THEIR planet?
None of those are legitimate Chinese characters. They are not in the official dictionary released by the Communist Party so therefore they do not exist. So stop wasting your time.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on January 15, 2008, 07:18:16 AM
None of those are legitimate Chinese characters. They are not in the official dictionary released by the Communist Party so therefore they do not exist. So stop wasting your time.
true, but hilarious ;D
Quote from: маразм1 on January 15, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
waste of time. they should stick to an alphabet
that's your opinion.
Quote from: маразм1 on January 15, 2008, 05:40:36 AM
chinese language is very inefficient.
Now, how did you know that? Do you even know
one Chinese word? Do you know
anything about Chinese? can you make a point about it by supplying some evidence? You probably can't, seeing that most of your comments are sophomoric and idiotic....
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 15, 2008, 06:02:11 AM
the only problem would be distinguishing the synonyms..... oh, wait, how do they distinguish the synonyms in speech? hmmmmmm context maybe?
If you mean that words that sounds the same but have different meanings, well, it's not so much context, it's more about construction. Rarely do Chinese people communicating by saying one character, they awlays communicate in words and sentenses(must be shock to you Greg, since you obviously didn't know that!). Rarely, when some characters have the same pronounciation, the words they form with other characters clearly distinguish them apart from its other uses. Of course, in order to have this insight, you must alteast know a little about the Chinese language, something you obviously don't have, and is making a fool of yourself by making it seems like you do.
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 15, 2008, 06:02:11 AM
it's not going to change, but still, you have nearby countries- Korea uses a simple alphabet of their own and Vietnamese uses the alphabet, and both have used Chinese characters but don't normally anymore. i wonder why ;D
Wrong again, Chinese words are changing in meaning/pronounciation all the time. In fact, the modern Chinese is a language that is probably completely alien to Chinese 200 years ago. The grammar changes, everything does. ALSO, Chinese also uses the alphabet to make pronounciation, how do you think little kids learn to pronounce these words? We learn a,b,c,d,e,f,etc.... in order to prounce the words, ever heard of "Pinyin"? Try wikipedia, if you are interested. This, I suspect, is the same for Korea and Vietnam, so you see, we are not so different after all.
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 15, 2008, 06:02:11 AM
as i said before, Japanese doesn't need them either, as long as there are spaces between words (if not, they desperately need them lol).....
i can understand this easily here, no problems:
わたし が からめとった おとこ で ございます か？ これ は たしか に たじょうまる と いう、 なだかい ぬすびと で ございます。 もっと も わたし が からめとった とき に は、 うま から おちた の で ございましょう、 あわだぐち の いしばし の うえ に、 うんうん うなって おりました。
or
Watashi ga karametotta otoko de gozaimasu ka? Kore wa tashika ni Tajoumaru to iu, nadakai nusubito de gozaimasu. Motto mo Watashi ga karametotta toki ni wa, uma kara ochita no de gozaimashou, Awadaguchi no Ishibashi no ue ni, unun to unatte orimashita.
but instead they have to make it difficult, like this:
私が搦め取った男でございますか？ これは確かに多襄丸という、 名高い盗人でございます。 尤も私が搦め取った時に は、馬から落ちたのでございましょう、粟田口の石橋の上に、 うんうん唸っておりました。
I'd prefer the first example, with pure hiragana, since it's the most efficient.
Your preference is yours, but language is not just a tool, it's a part of a nation's cultural heritage, their national identity. To say that a nation should change it's system just because it's harder for idiots like you to learn is downright foolish, and insulting. You pretend that you know some Japanese (you might in fact do), but you can't pretend to know Chinese and make ridiculously stupid remarks around here. I hope you learn your lessen.
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 15, 2008, 09:14:40 AM
true, but hilarious ;D
you must have caught something we didn't. What's so hiliarious about it?
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
And all the modern world can do about this Monsterous situation is just watch.
There is a giant galactic "cloud" heading toward our galaxy too, if we make impact, we would almost certainly die. What would you do about it?
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
I know this is not the topic to discuss this meltdown crisis but since we are talking about the beautiful chinese written expression, china has a large share in this global warming process, due to a economic growth ate of 12% /yr and few controls on pollution measures. Of course its true Every country has its share in the disaster.
Has it ever occurred to you, that a rise in productivity (economic growth) also means the rise in living standards? Which means it is inevitable that more attention will be paid on environment, and citizens would actually live in a more clean environment than their grandparents.
Has it also occurred to you, that the China you know, is changing everyday? Have you ever been to China? I've been to China a few times, and each time my immediately reaction was that everything was getting cleaner, there were newly build parks, just for children (for free!), more trees were planted etc,..... something I didn't see when I lived there almost a decade ago.
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
But its not like we were not forwarned on this meltdown. Jacques Cousteau told us of these possible consequences of modern industrialization long before anyone took notice of the actual polar measurements.
Now that The Great Machine is set in motion, its like that chinese dragon in mythology, just waiting for any opportunity to swallow the hero. Hero here being the wonders of modern living for the over-populated planet.
Are you a Luddite? Cause you sound just like one.
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
Here's a ancedote. My acupuncturist here in NO, is like 3rd + generation doctor from china, and is one of the very finest at his practice, even works his "magic' at Tulane Hospital.
I am not sure, but I get this hunch that before he comes in to see me, he's up to something next room over.
I'm beginning to think,,,and now clearly recall from his previous office he had these "activities" going on in a 'special room'...that he's works the I Ching before he sees the patient. For him this long established book of wisdom, seeing with the inner eye, provides details on each patient that facilitates his choice of the points for needle positions. Back pain dissolves after a few visits, no need to consider surgery. But one must do ones part, and correct the thinking pattern.
What's your point? Are you not okay with other's religious beliefs? Do you even know what "I Ching" is? Do you know that not all acupuncturist does that?
Here is an anecdote, my father has been practicing Acupuncture for 35 years (I am not kidding, it's true). He is agnostic, and does not do anything of the sort, his got his MD from a University in China, and learned everything from text books (Not I Ching btw), and wrote his dissertation, and got his degree. He came from China too, he treat his patients based on his grasp of western and eastern medicine. what's "wrong" or what's "right" about his "thinking pattern"?
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
Richard Wilhelm and CG Jung worked on a book about the mysteries of the I Ching. I've yet to read.
Here is a thought......Maybe you should read them first, then post your opinions. In that way, at least you'll know how stupid your logic is, and refrain from posting and save our time from reading this garbage.
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
I wonder what kind of symbols come forth from the I Ching concerning the global meltdown?
Probably nothing. But, then, you won't ever know, you probably won't read the material anyway.
Quote from: paulb on January 15, 2008, 07:10:41 AM
Don't want to know.
sure, from the all the ignorant things you have said. If seems you have been "Don't want to know" for a long time.
Quote from: Gustav on January 15, 2008, 12:34:26 PM
There is a giant galactic "cloud" heading toward our galaxy too, if we make impact, we would almost certainly die. What would you do about it?
sure, from the all the ignorant things you have said. If seems you have been "Don't want to know" for a long time.
Gustav
before this cloud hits us in eons from now, the polar caps will have disintergrated,
The new higher , stronger levees here in new orleans won't save us then.
You read me wrong, I like the I Ching, it sureves to help the patient.
I will read the Wilhelm/Jung book.
I holda pessimistic view of man's "progress" to save the planet.
I think it may have been hurricane K that had some impact on my intuition.
Not really, i 've felt this way since watching Cousteau as a youngster.
Its pay-day.
Paul
Quote from: Gustav on January 15, 2008, 12:02:57 PM
Wrong again, Chinese words are changing in meaning/pronounciation all the time. In fact, the modern Chinese is a language that is probably completely alien to Chinese 200 years ago. The grammar changes, everything does. ALSO, Chinese also uses the alphabet to make pronounciation, how do you think little kids learn to pronounce these words? We learn a,b,c,d,e,f,etc.... in order to prounce the words, ever heard of "Pinyin"? Try wikipedia, if you are interested. This, I suspect, is the same for Korea and Vietnam, so you see, we are not so different after all.
i don't see the relation with my quote.... by change, i meant change into just using Pinyin, or something.
Quote from: Gustav on January 15, 2008, 12:02:57 PM
Your preference is yours, but language is not just a tool, it's a part of a nation's cultural heritage, their national identity. To say that a nation should change it's system just because it's harder for idiots like you to learn is downright foolish, and insulting. You pretend that you know some Japanese (you might in fact do), but you can't pretend to know Chinese and make ridiculously stupid remarks around here. I hope you learn your lessen.
well, Pinyin is simpler. I'm sure it would have been simpler if when you were learning to read, you stopped at Pinyin.
i'm not saying the writing system is
bad, but it could simpler, that's all.
Same exact thing with English, learning how to read takes awhile (and is a struggle for a lot of kids) because of the totally messed up spelling which should have been reformed a long time ago... when i first learned the Spanish alphabet and saw how simple it was (being able to pronounce ANY word you ever see very easily), it was pretty cool. I learned how to pronounce any word in another language about 100x faster than my own language..... oh wait, i still can't pronounce any new word in my own language because the spelling is so messed up, that's right. So would that be infinity times faster?.....
Why does there have to be 2 ls in the word "spell"? What sense does that make? Complicated stuff is cool and fun, but oh well......
why don't we all just spell with the IPA? ;D
(ok, i'm just kidding.......)
Quote from: Gustav on January 15, 2008, 12:34:26 PM
Have you ever been to China? I've been to China a few times, and each time my immediately reaction was that everything was getting cleaner, there were newly build parks, just for children (for free!), more trees were planted etc,..... something I didn't see when I lived there almost a decade ago.
sounds good, when i went to Kentucky last time, my dad tried to take my to a park and thought it was free..... we walked in and some lady stopped us and told us it wasn't free (anymore).... and where i live , they're building neighborhoods EVERYWHERE :P
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 15, 2008, 05:29:12 AM
Nope, not really ;D
I wish i had time to learn Danish, then i'd practice it with Mikkel.... i have made some observations about those languages, though- they have tons of cognates but they aren't obvious until you realize what it means! Like bog=book, who would've guessed, yet you can see the relations anyways. :o
Actually, in Icelandic, 'bók' is 'book' anyways. Maybe 'bog' is Danish? ???
We can see it here in: "Íslensk-ensk orðabók". Which is basically Icelandic / English "Wordbook". Orð means 'word' roughly. I'm hardly even a beginner in Icelandic but I'm just going by what this (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html) says.
But in any case, I know what you mean! You see a word and you're like "I have no clue what that means", but then you see the English equivalent and you hit your head ;D Bok / Book is a good example.
Another example is 'Is'. 'Is' means Ice. So to say Iceland in the native tongue you say Island (pronounced: EES-LAND / LIND. "EES" being with 'gEESe or grEASe.)
QuoteAs for Icelandic, that's one language that's been isolated for years, so it's much different compared to Danish-Norwegian-Swedish, but i think it might be the language that's closer to how the Vikings must've spoken (that's what i think i read?)
That's right! In fact, all the Eddas and Sagas from around 1300 are still basically readable like today's newspaper. Super cool :D
Quote from: 12tone. on January 15, 2008, 03:50:07 PM
Another example is 'Is'. 'Is' means Ice. So to say Iceland in the native tongue you say Island (pronounced: EES-LAND / LIND. "EES" being with 'gEESe or grEASe.)
wow, that's an even better example than my 'book' example :o
Quote from: 12tone. on January 15, 2008, 03:50:07 PM
We can see it here in: "Íslensk-ensk orðabók". Which is basically Icelandic / English "Wordbook". Orð means 'word' roughly. I'm hardly even a beginner in Icelandic but I'm just going by what this (http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/IcelOnline/Search.TEId.html) says.
interesting site...... i always like parallel translations
Quote from: 12tone. on January 15, 2008, 03:50:07 PM
That's right! In fact, all the Eddas and Sagas from around 1300 are still basically readable like today's newspaper. Super cool :D
so i guess if you wanna pretend to be a Viking, you need to speak Icelandic ;D
Greg, is your Japanese more fluent than your English?
It never matters whether I read front to back or back to front. :-X
Quote from: 復活交響曲 on January 15, 2008, 04:37:36 PM
Greg, is your Japanese more fluent than your English?
lol, that would be impossible ;D
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 16, 2008, 06:17:16 AM
lol, that would be impossible ;D
Are you quoting and replying to yourself??? That is disturbing then.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on January 16, 2008, 06:32:21 AM
Are you quoting and replying to yourself??? That is disturbing then.
Dude, 復活交響曲 not = 僕はグレグ lol
Quote from: 僕はグレグ (Greg) on January 16, 2008, 06:35:02 AM
Dude, 復活交響曲 not = 僕はグレグ lol
Oh I thought 僕はグレグ is 復活交響曲 in Japanese.
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on January 16, 2008, 06:52:22 AM
Oh I thought 僕はグレグ is 復活交響曲 in Japanese.
oh, ok, no problem ;D