Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[André]

I just read this in the Snopes book I have been reading and it is relevant, imo, to this thread - and something I also believe.

"They'll always be wrong. They think they are fighting Clarence Snopes. They're not. They're not faced with an individual nor even a situation: they are beating their brains out against one of the foundation rocks of our national character itself. Which is the premise that politics and political office are not and never have been the method and means by which we can govern ourselves in peace and dignity and honor and security, but instead are our national refuge for our incompetents who have failed at every other occupation"

William Faulkner, The Mansion

We're talking some 60 years ago here. Are you saying nothing has changed in US politics since those days ?

[San Antone]

We're talking some 60 years ago here. Are you saying nothing has changed in US politics since those days ?

No, things have changed, it has gotten much worse.  The politicians have gotten more venal, more corrupt and more shamelessly unethical since and are no longer merely harmless incompetents.  Don't fool yourself that it is any different in other countries.

[André]

True. Your description of Trump is right on the money.

[San Antone]

True. Your description of Trump is right on the money.

Trump more closely resembles Faulkner's description of a harmless incompetent, which I prefer to the danger of a Hillary Clinton presidency.

[Pat B]

Gary Johnson seemed ignorant of foreign policy issues ("Aleppo?  What exactly do you mean?").  I am hoping Bernie's lefties will do as you do and vote for Jill Stein, or stay home.

And Trump claimed that Russia would not invade Ukraine, which in fact has already happened. Nobody even remembers that statement, long since buried under a flood of other Trumpiness.

If "what is Aleppo?" had been asked by Trump, it wouldn't even make the top 10 most ridiculous things he said in this campaign.

[drogulus]

     The Repubs insist that their representatives do no useful work, so they rise or fall on the voters tolerance for their "investigative" substitutes. The party that offers economic, scientific and educational progress will have an advantage, one might even say an ethical advantage, but my beef is with the ordinary American slobs who think a leader must follow them, cater to their ignorance, appeal to their fears and tell them it's OK to hate America and everyone who is happier than they are.

     It's been said here, even by me, that the Red zone citizens are facing hopeless odds, and some understanding is called for, but for the life of me I can't see how leveling down to their misery makes America strong. The Blues will be resented, but we can't stop evolving into whatever we'll become because part of the country can't keep up. We'll help with money, and escape for the talented and ambitious, and that's all we can do.

[kishnevi]

Still compares favorably to El Tupé, in the view of some friends of mine who are voting Johnson/Weld.

Exactly.  Johnson has a pair of virtues: he knows he doesn't know, and he restrains himself accordingly.

[Parsifal]

Take it from people who know Trump from way back, the New York Daily News.

[Karl Henning]

Trump more closely resembles Faulkner's description of a harmless incompetent [...]

We disagree on this, but El Tupé is no Uncle Billy in It's a Wonderful Life   

But, his White House would never want for . . . "entertainment":

Latest from the Trump conspiracy factory: Bill Clinton's black son

[San Antone]

Take it from people who know Trump from way back, the New York Daily News.

Sorry, I think for myself.  We live in an age where critical thinking is an endangered species.

[San Antone]

Exactly.  Johnson has a pair of virtues: he knows he doesn't know, and he restrains himself accordingly.

Sure.  Libertarians for Clinton.

Libertarian vice presidential nominee Bill Weld admitted Tuesday night that his ticket's shot of winning the White House went out the window when it failed to qualify for the presidential debates, and as such, he went on TV in a new role: surrogate for Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Weld, running alongside former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket, said the former secretary of state is "a person of high moral character, a reliable person. And an honest person


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bill-weld-vouching-for-clinton-230622#ixzz4OqsPhTkg


That last bit is especially rich.

[Parsifal]

Sure.  Libertarians for Clinton.

Libertarian vice presidential nominee Bill Weld admitted Tuesday night that his ticket's shot of winning the White House went out the window when it failed to qualify for the presidential debates, and as such, he went on TV in a new role: surrogate for Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Weld, running alongside former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket, said the former secretary of state is "a person of high moral character, a reliable person. And an honest person


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bill-weld-vouching-for-clinton-230622#ixzz4OqsPhTkg


That last bit is especially rich.

And you entirely discount the possibility that he does know her well and does know admire her character? Every liable about Clinton is taken as gospel truth and any praise is discounted. That's the pattern.

[San Antone]

And you entirely discount the possibility that he does know her well and does know admire her character? Every liable about Clinton is taken as gospel truth and any praise is discounted. That's the pattern.

LOL

I am old enough to remember the 1990s when they were first in the White House, my family is also from North Louisiana and my sister moved to Little Rock in the 1960s, lived in Arkansas for over 40 years, was a prosecutor in his Arkansas AG's office, and knows first hand about their record of lying, and worse.  Honest is the last thing either one of them is.

Those who are not so ambitious to as to attempt parlay a connection to the Clintons into personal enrichment or political advancement (that is until their loyalty is rewarded by being asked to fall on their sword, as Huma Abedin is experiencing) know who and what they are and want nothing to do with them.

[Madiel]

Sorry, I think for myself.

In recent days, your contributions to this thread have consisted almost entirely of links and headings. Other people's words.

You are by no means the only person to be doing this. But you're the one claiming right now to think for yourself.

[Karl Henning]

LOL

I am old enough to remember the 1990s when they were first in the White House, my family is also from North Louisiana and my sister moved to Little Rock in the 1960s, lived in Arkansas for over 40 years, was a prosecutor in his Arkansas AG's office, and knows first hand about their record of lying, and worse.  Honest is the last thing either one of them is.

Those who are not so ambitious to as to attempt parlay a connection to the Clintons into personal enrichment or political advancement (that is until their loyalty is rewarded by being asked to fall on their sword, as Huma Abedin is experiencing) know who and what they are and want nothing to do with them.

Well, thinking for myself, I do not find Clinton's dishonesty any match for El "bigly" Tupé.

And since Weiner is clearly Abedin's cross to bear, how interesting of you to spin that as Clinton asking that she "fall on her sword."

Imagining that El Tupé is harmlessly incompetent, well, I give you credit for thinking for yourself on that one.  But you forgive me for not thinking much of the quality of thought, there.

[San Antone]

Hillary Clinton Becomes the Unsafe Hand

It's hard to generalize about Hillary Clinton's email situation except that she tried to afford herself an extraordinary privilege as a high-ranking official, and then caused for herself exactly the problems (and worse) that she presumably was trying to avoid.

It's the White House Travel Office, the Rose Law Firm billing records, the Seth Ward option (don't ask), the health-care task force, etc., all over again.

Mrs. Clinton is a screw-up. And when a trait takes such trouble to announce itself, note must be taken.

If Dems Will Rig a Debate for Clinton, What Won't They Do?

No matter what the election outcome next week, the media will be big losers. This campaign season has seen much of the media rip off their veneer of objectivity, too often acting instead as an unofficial campaign arm working to elect Hillary Clinton.

The latest revelation — that the town hall moderator overseeing a Democratic primary debate gave CNN contributor Donna Brazile a peak at expected questions, and Brazile then fed Hillary Clinton's campaign staff a question expected to come up in the primary debate against Bernie Sanders — confirms the too cozy relationships between the politicians and the so-called journalists and officials who are supposed to be helping Americans get unbiased information about candidates.

Bernie Sanders supporters should be outraged: We've seen time and again how the DNC was never going to allow their guy a fair shot at the nomination.

[Madiel]

Hillary Clinton Becomes the Unsafe Hand

It's hard to generalize about Hillary Clinton's email situation except that she tried to afford herself an extraordinary privilege as a high-ranking official, and then caused for herself exactly the problems (and worse) that she presumably was trying to avoid.

It's the White House Travel Office, the Rose Law Firm billing records, the Seth Ward option (don't ask), the health-care task force, etc., all over again.

Mrs. Clinton is a screw-up. And when a trait takes such trouble to announce itself, note must be taken.

If Dems Will Rig a Debate for Clinton, What Won't They Do?

No matter what the election outcome next week, the media will be big losers. This campaign season has seen much of the media rip off their veneer of objectivity, too often acting instead as an unofficial campaign arm working to elect Hillary Clinton.

The latest revelation — that the town hall moderator overseeing a Democratic primary debate gave CNN contributor Donna Brazile a peak at expected questions, and Brazile then fed Hillary Clinton's campaign staff a question expected to come up in the primary debate against Bernie Sanders — confirms the too cozy relationships between the politicians and the so-called journalists and officials who are supposed to be helping Americans get unbiased information about candidates.

Bernie Sanders supporters should be outraged: We've seen time and again how the DNC was never going to allow their guy a fair shot at the nomination.

More thinking for yourself.

[Karl Henning]

And, on the lighter side (I have no independent opinion on the question . . . I mean, I probably prefer the traditional geographically-correct map, but is that independent thought, or custom? My thinking is that this was a rhetorical question.):

This "bad" election map? It's not so bad.

[Karl Henning]

http://www.youtube.com/v/7I4Fkiu2nak

[drogulus]

     Republicans and Russian hackers have made Hillary Clinton the most transparent candidate in history

There's an irony to Clinton's relationship with the press, Aftergood observes. "She tries to keep things secret, and that leads to their ultimate disclosure. People make accusations against her, and the effort to refute them leads to more disclosure." The result is someone who seems secretive — who perhaps is secretive — but who has ended up divulging more information about her personal life, her political operation, her policy process, her daily schedule, and her financial dealings than any candidate in memory. Yet we react less to the information we get than to her reluctance to release it and her demeanor when she does — we prize the performance of openness more than the openness itself.

We are in the odd place of knowing more about Clinton than we can process but somehow feeling like we know nothing at all. We simultaneously have vast gaps in our knowledge of Trump even as we wonder why he can't hold anything back. It's a strange election.