Why I am Not a Composer...

[Cato]

I should mention a little story in connection to my not continuing as a composer.

In the early 1980's I once had 2 students in Toledo who were devotees of Apple computers, and also were interested in experimental music.  I showed them one of my quarter-tone works, and they were so enthusiastic about it, that they spent several hours programming a Macintosh to play quarter-tone music, and then programmed my work into it.

I have described the result as music being played by Martian vacuum cleaners.

In any case, the work impressed a few musicians, including a tubist at a local university, who expressed interest in having a quarter-tone Tuba Concerto written for him.  By chance I had already composed one in the 1970's for another Midwestern tubist, who shall remain nameless.  But given the mercurial and semi-dishonest personalities involved, nothing ever happened, despite various claims and promises.

One of my teenaged programmers, however, did go on to work for Apple.

Eventually he was the one who invented the JPeg program for pictures!!!  Originally entitled JPEG-View, it impressed Apple, and so he was hired.  Today I believe he works at Cornell.

[greg]

I have described the result as music being played by Martian vacuum cleaners.

well, at least it has a unique sound 
it'd sound a lot better if you could rewrite it with synth or something, and actually have dynamics programmed into the sound.

One of my teenaged programmers, however, did go on to work for Apple.

Eventually he was the one who invented the JPeg program for pictures!!!  Originally entitled JPEG-View, it impressed Apple, and so he was hired.  Today I believe he works at Cornell.

wow, you knew somebody would (should be) famous!

[Cato]

well, at least it has a unique sound 
it'd sound a lot better if you could rewrite it with synth or something, and actually have dynamics programmed into the sound.


wow, you knew somebody would (should be) famous!

I conceived it as something for a string orchestra, and had to rethink some parts for the limitations of the computer back then.

Motorola in fact, as early as the 1970's, had a microtonal synthesizer on the market called a Scalatron, and had hired a character named George Secor to compose and perform works on it. 

See this page: it offers a 1976 microtonal work "after Telemann" by Secor.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/sagittal/gift/GiftOfTheGods.htm

Even better than knowing someone who became fairly famous in his field: I was his teacher for 4 years!     

[greg]

http://users.bigpond.net.au/d.keenan/sagittal/gift/GiftOfTheGods.htm

ah... microtonality can be put to much better use than that.
i don't know what he thinking, modeling it after Telemann...... sounds more like an old recording that's out of tune.

[karlhenning]

Some people go for that.

(Just sayin')

[Kullervo]

I don't have anything of import to add, I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, Cato.

[Josquin des Prez]

Muriel's litany of wives needs to include Alma Mahler, whose "big ego-ed" husband forbade her to compose anything...for a while!

He probably didn't want her to taint his good name.

[Cato]

ah... microtonality can be put to much better use than that.
i don't know what he thinking, modeling it after Telemann...... sounds more like an old recording that's out of tune.

(My emphasis above.)  Precisely, which is why I always wondered why Secor had any influence at Motorola.  When you hear all the other things that have been done in the genre, especially by pioneers Julian Carrillo and Ivan Wyschnegradsky, not to mention Harry Partch, this example is fairly weak tea.

And thank you, Corey!

[Kullervo]

Cato, it seems to my admittedly green ears that microtonality could be used to portray a sort of emotional ambiguity in music with a recognizable "tune" (though not necessarily easily singable!). Do you think any composers have used this effect in their music? I have heard some works by Claude Vivier that seemed to achieve something like what I'm talking about.

[c#minor]

Cato, i cannot see where you are coming from but i do respect your opinion. But too me composition is relief. It is almost a way of letting go of a feeling that is too intense. Also one moment of satisfaction for hard work is always worth the years of waiting for it. I have been the only musical person in my family and i get a huge amount of "non-understanding", it is a blow to everything inside of me. The horrible moment when you ask someone what they think about a passage that you have put your while soul into and your are glimmering with pride, for them to mildly say, it's alright, or the worst, "it's cute." But then i remember that i am doing it for myself, my own therapy and i continue.

I am not going to lie, i get much satisfaction out of peoples enjoyment of a piece. That moment is compensation for all the times a have fallen before.

[MishaK]

But in the end here is what ended it: I realized that, when I heard my music, I did not want my personality, my soul, if you can abide the term, so openly exposed for public examination.  When the few performances occurred, I realized that the experience was so private, that I could not feel anything but embarrassment, as if I were confessing my sins over a loudspeaker.

Furtwängler once remarked that conducting his own music made him feel like a seven-year-old girl stripping in front of a group of dirty old men.

[bwv 1080]

re: microtones, tuning to different intervals etc...

A great example is Bartok's Concerto for Violin & Orchestra... ..
a wonderful masterpiece which happens to utilize a number of quarter tones,
especially in the solo violin part...

Is this right?  The solo violin sonata uses microtones but I am not aware of any in the violin concerto

[Mark G. Simon]

Is this right?  The solo violin sonata uses microtones but I am not aware of any in the violin concerto

Only a few of them, and they're purely ornamental. Upper and lower neighbor tones.

[Cato]

Cato, it seems to my admittedly green ears that microtonality could be used to portray a sort of emotional ambiguity in music with a recognizable "tune" (though not necessarily easily singable!). Do you think any composers have used this effect in their music? I have heard some works by Claude Vivier that seemed to achieve something like what I'm talking about.

Yes!  There are several marvelous examples: one is a CD using a microtonal synthesizer with works by Easley Blackwood, containing fanfares and other small works in various xenharmonic scales with recognizable melodies.

Another is Julian Carrillo's Christopher Columbus Prelude  a haunting work, available at website "CD Baby" on a CD with microtonal works by Johnny Reinhard and others.

If you can find the quarter-tone piano works of Ivan Wyschnegradsky, you could hear perhaps one ofthe best examples of what is capable: his works sound at times Scriabinian.

c#minor: Welcome to the world of creativity!  I also am the only musical type in the family, and nobody really understood my talent.  Of course, nobody understood my decision to major in ancient languages, German, and history! "When will you take some business courses?"  Only after my students won some national awards did my parents finally accept me as a teacher.  But certainly, if you enjoy having other people listen to your music, keep on working! 

Beware of musicians, however!  I once had an organist claim that he had practiced a sonata I had written, and he waxed effulgently over it.  When I arrived to hear it, he immediately packed up and broke our appointment, smiling and saying that I really should orchestrate the piece!  He avoided me thereafter!

Concerning Bartok and microtones: I believe the 6th Quartet has a section where quarter-tones are used sparingly for a certain exotic effect.

[Kullervo]

Yes!  There are several marvelous examples: one is a CD using a microtonal synthesizer with works by Easley Blackwood, containing fanfares and other small works in various xenharmonic scales with recognizable melodies.

Another is Julian Carrillo's Christopher Columbus Prelude  a haunting work, available at website "CD Baby" on a CD with microtonal works by Johnny Reinhard and others.

If you can find the quarter-tone piano works of Ivan Wyschnegradsky, you could hear perhaps one ofthe best examples of what is capable: his works sound at times Scriabinian.

Thank you. I had an architect acquaintance (who I haven't spoken to in a long while) who held Carrillo in high regard and influenced his own dabblings in electronic music. Wyschnegradsky sounds especially interesting.

[johnQpublic]

Another composer who has done well with microtones - John Eaton.

I once visited his studio where he had two pianos side-by-side. One tuned normally; the other a quarter-off from the normal one.

[Cato]

Another composer who has done well with microtones - John Eaton.

I once visited his studio where he had two pianos side-by-side. One tuned normally; the other a quarter-off from the normal one.

I will have to investigate him: the name is unknown to me.

One of my works contained a little trick, where I accustomed the listeners to good old C major for a few minutes: or so they thought.  In fact everything was played by the quarter-tone sharp piano: when the normally tuned piano finally chimed in, it was the one which sounded weird.

The comment by Furtwängler is precisely my experience!  But he did continue as an at least erstwhile composer.  The only thing I have done recently was adapt the March from the scherzo of the Joachim Raff Fifth Symphony ("Lenore") as an organ wedding march for my brother's sister-in-law: I had to compose about 10 bars myself for transitions and the grand finale: the latter I did more in the style of R. Strauss and Mahler, rather than Raff!   

[Mark G. Simon]

Raff with microtones would have to be more interestng.

[Mark G. Simon]

"Something in him holds him back" was Tchaikovsky's famous comment about Glazunov.

I was just thinking -- and this may contradict my earlier posts in this thread -- that there are some composers who have made a virtue out of holding back. I am thinking principally of Fauré, whose music is often elusive and extremely introverted.

I was once talking to a pianist I know in Ithaca, a very wonderful pianist and leader of a fine chamber music group. After hearing him perform Fauré's 1st Piano Quartet for the second time I asked him once when he would get around to the 2nd Quartet, a work which I admire beyond all bounds. He said "later Fauré is cold. It does nothing for me". I just wished I could let him listen to this music as it passes through my ears. Somehow the sense that Fauré is holding something in reserve, not telling you everything, only alluding to personal secrets, adds depth to the music. It makes you work to fill in the blanks. I don't know how he did it. Other composers just give you the feeling that "what you hear is what you get" and "that's all there is; there ain't no more".

[Guido]

Is 1885 considered late for Faure? I have also long adored the late works - the first movement of the piano trio has to be the single most gorgeous movement in all the non-duo chamber reprtoire that I have heard. Also the late piano quintets, and string quartets. I find the cello Sonatas quite tough going, and have never really got into them. Maybe they deserve another listen.

Somehow the sense that Fauré is holding something in reserve, not telling you everything, only alluding to personal secrets, adds depth to the music. It makes you work to fill in the blanks. I don't know how he did it.

That is exactly the same feeling I get now that I think about it, but I wouldn't have been able to articulate it.

Presumably not all composers feel so reticent about presenting their music to the public... I wonder what Brahms and Bach and Stravinsky felt like hearing their own music?