Works for which you're not yet ready?

[Mark]

Not really, I think I found both works equally tough - or equally easy! Truth be told, though, I actually the next one, no 3, more than either of these two. It's really quite a brave and striking piece, I think.

I'm planning on downloading one disc in the series each month. More than this at one go I couldn't take.

[Grazioso]

Perhaps I painted with a bit of a broad brush.     I should have clarified with a "post 1940's" or something as such...I'm talking mainly about the serial/atonal/academic pieces foisted upon us by the 50's, 60's, 70's...that's the stuff that I still maintain "killed" our audiences.  The stuff from which Mr. Maxwell Davies evolved.

I'm a huge Mahler, Sibelius, Bax, RVW, etc fan.  In my other posts you'll find me extolling the virtues of Atterberg, Rangstrom, Tubin, Melartin, Borresen, etc.

I understand, but today there are still very accessible composers, like Rautavaara and Rorem and Pärt, to name a few I like. And in the 60's and 70's you had guys like Pettersson writing tonal music.

[Grazioso]

This thread got me interested in the Maxwell Davies quartet series, and I came across this nice line in a MusicWeb review:

'Expressionist' seems a very apt tag – much of this is like Berg ... but with extra Berg added.

[Mark]

This thread got me interested in the Maxwell Davies quartet series, and I came across this nice line in a MusicWeb review:

'Expressionist' seems a very apt tag – much of this is like Berg ... but with extra Berg added.

I'd be inclined to go with that description.

[Kullervo]

Anything by Elgar.

You're boring.

[Kullervo]

It's not you, these pieces are awful.   

As a matter of fact, this is the VERY disc that made me realize that most of 20th Century classical is awful.   "Composers" shove this garbage upon us, devoid of any sort of thought, melodic/harmonic content...a complete disregard for the listener...and a few academics lap it up as gospel. Meanwhile the real composers of old are turning in their graves as this schlock that passes for "art music" gets its turn.

Is it any wonder concert halls sit empty? Is it any wonder classical CD sales sink further and further into the abyss? It's because for decades crap like this has been forced upon an unsuspecting public who desire nothing more than a decent melody.

Apologies for the threadjack...that CD really touches a nerve with me.

Thanks, I've added it to my wishlist.

[gmstudio]

I do own the first four PMD quartets, and I was listening to the beginning of the first as I was typing my original post.  So it's not for lack of trying.     My feeling the first time I heard them was "haven't we heard all this before? why do we need this?"  The Berg analogy is perfect.

Oh, and if you look at my Top 10 symphonies from Mark's thread of a few days ago, you'll find plenty of Pettersson listed.

[Kullervo]

Which works did you once find yourself ill prepared for, or which are currently, for you, 'no go' territory?

I'm ready for anything! I don't actively avoid any composer's work, but there are many that currently don't come under my "sphere". Given what I've read about Ferneyhough I don't think I will be rushing to hear him. Maybe one day? It would be easier to explore this repertoire if their CDs weren't so damned expensive!

Edit: I just wanted to make it clear that there are indeed composers whose music I just don't like, but there isn't anything that I feel I'm not "ready" for.

[lukeottevanger]

My feeling the first time I heard them was "haven't we heard all this before? why do we need this?" ....Oh, and if you look at my Top 10 symphonies from Mark's thread of a few days ago, you'll find plenty of Pettersson listed.

but it would be equally possible to say "haven't we heard all this before? why do we need this?"  about some of Pettersson's symphonies. Not to mention all sorts of other pieces from within the canon.

[mr_espansiva]

It's not you, these pieces are awful.   

As a matter of fact, this is the VERY disc that made me realize that most of 20th Century classical is awful.   "Composers" shove this garbage upon us, devoid of any sort of thought, melodic/harmonic content...a complete disregard for the listener...and a few academics lap it up as gospel. Meanwhile the real composers of old are turning in their graves as this schlock that passes for "art music" gets its turn.

Is it any wonder concert halls sit empty? Is it any wonder classical CD sales sink further and further into the abyss? It's because for decades crap like this has been forced upon an unsuspecting public who desire nothing more than a decent melody.

I take it you are a Classic FM kind of bod then ...

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I should have clarified with a "post 1940's" or something as such...I'm talking mainly about the serial/atonal/academic pieces foisted upon us by the 50's, 60's, 70's...that's the stuff that I still maintain "killed" our audiences.  The stuff from which Mr. Maxwell Davies evolved.

Long live Lutoslawski.

[Kullervo]

Long live Lutoslawski.

Hear, hear!

[some guy]

...today there are still very accessible composers, like Rautavaara and Rorem and Pärt, to name a few I like.

And Lachenmann and Dumitrescu and Yoshihide, to name a few I like.

[some guy]

What I'm not ready for: maybe Norgard, who's revered by some here.... The sixth is an ugly bore, butTerrains Vagues has an interesting rhythmic drive.

Wow.

The sixth was my first experience of Nørgård's music. On the strength of that (and of Terrains Vagues, which is on the same disc), I was back in the store to buy all the rest of their Nørgård, about four other discs, and then back home to get on Amazon and Arkiv to order the other half dozen I now enjoy.

(Oops. I just noticed that not only did I just double-post (which I prefer not to do), but that both posts are responses to Grazioso. Sorry Grazioso!!)

Anyway, I'm with Corey, up for anything--and I too am going back to that store mentioned in my previous utterance to pick up those Maxwell Davies discs. After such a fine recommendation as gmstudio's, how could I resist? (I know, buying music because someone else hates it is a chump's game, but I've gotten a couple of very sweet discs recently in just that way, including the very tasty Kurtag collection on ECM of works for strings.)

And speaking of Ferneyhough, I have a friend who thinks he's the cat's whiskers, along with Birtwhistle and Boulez. I don't particularly like any of those, but who the hell am I, I say? These are three great composers. I'll get to the point some day where I'll be able to like them, I'm sure. Meanwhile, it's back to L/A/B and Lockweld for the rest of the morning.

[Wendell_E]

This thread got me interested in the Maxwell Davies quartet series, and I came across this nice line in a MusicWeb review:

'Expressionist' seems a very apt tag – much of this is like Berg ... but with extra Berg added.

Darn you to heck!  Now I have to buy this!   

[Brian]

You mean Alsop's new one on Naxos?  It's that bad, eh?

Plus, explain this 'thirty seconds' thing 

EDIT: Please 

Ah, sorry, I should elaborate.

Now that I have finally come around to Brahms' Fourth, I am absolutely dedicated to it. (My profile picture is from the cover of Kleiber's recording.) I love the work in such a way that if the performers take even one decision which doesn't seem "right" to me, I can be disappointed by the recording. It's a personal perfectionist problem. Marin Alsop's Brahms Four is actually fantastic, and the first three movements are played beautifully (the second maybe better than Kleiber), but then there are thirty seconds in the finale, around maybe the 7-8 minute mark, where the pace and energy seem to momentarily slacken and the dramatic momentum eases up. It's a very small moment, but all the more disappointing to me because everything before it had gone so well. As a result the final coda didn't have the same feeling of "WHAM! The End." that great performances have.

Basically, I have such a strong view of how the Brahms Fourth should sound, and how strong its emotional impact should be (=overpowering!), that if performers fall just a little short it makes me sad. Alsop's performance of the 4 is very fine indeed - along with the First it's the highlight of her cycle - but it falls just short of the perfection one hoped for.

[Renfield]

Thanks for all your replies, Renfield, brianrein and jochanaan. I'll check out that Kleiber 4th. As for the M8, I have Chailly, Bernstein, Tennstedt, Abbado, Solti, Bertini and Kubelik. What do you guys think is a good recording for starters?

For the Brahms 4th, and since you're already in the Karajan club (), I'd also recommend Karajan's 70's recording with the BPO, which is probably my favourite recording of the work. And if you can tolerate the sound, the best (but very "adapted", and certainly quite disturbing) Brahms' 4th I've heard is a Furtwängler/BPO live recording, on EMI.

As for Mahler's 8th, I've said it a few times already (I think) that I consider Tennstedt's version nonpareil, while the Solti, the early Bernstein, the Bertini, and the Rattle are also strong performances. The Sinopoli and the Chailly, on the other hand, are interesting in their approach, but I wouldn't recommend them as a way into the piece.

(Kubelik's I haven't heard, and Abbado's I don't rank with the above recordings: it's good, but not that good, in my opinion.)

[Grazioso]

Wow.

The sixth was my first experience of Nørgård's music. On the strength of that (and of Terrains Vagues, which is on the same disc), I was back in the store to buy all the rest of their Nørgård, about four other discs, and then back home to get on Amazon and Arkiv to order the other half dozen I now enjoy.

Like they say, "De gustibus non est disputandum." ("They" being dead Romans.) But while Norgard hasn't wowed me, there's enough of interest for me to keep trying.

[Kullervo]

What I'm not ready for: maybe Nørgård, who's revered by some here. So far, I find his third symphony pretty yet ultimately pretty dull, rather like a collection of sound effects with delusions of grandeur. The sixth is an ugly bore, butTerrains Vagues has an interesting rhythmic drive.

Well, if you didn't get the third, you probably won't get anything else by him.