Mini-Blind Comparison: Chopin's Ballade No. 2

Cato · February 16, 2017, 08:09:52 AM

First impressions! (Using Herr Zimerman as my standard...

)

10 - A fine, delicate opening, but the second part is average, I thought.

11 - One of the slowest, and quietest, and therefore to my ear it should be a favorite. The second part is also nicely done, a more modest tempest than in certain other interpretations.

12 - Good opening, and an impressive Presto with great clarity.

13 - Too fast for me, too loud at times, and the Presto sounds like it was played by an old mechanical piano!

14 - Again, I find things are taken too fast: the Presto, however, is well done, dramatic with clear lines.

15 - More delicate than 13 and 14, although at times a little too loud. The Presto is rather impressive.

16 - Softer sound in an echoing hall, giving a more wistful, nostalgic atmosphere. However, the Presto sounds similar to #13, as if an old upright mechanical piano had suddenly been pushed on stage for the second part!

17 - Slower, with (I think) just the right touch of rubato. The Presto shows a good amount of Sturm und Drang !

18 - Quiet, delicate performance, perhaps a wee too fast, but with the Presto an overall good interpretation.

No rankings yet! 0:)

mc ukrneal · February 16, 2017, 05:16:05 PM

Here we go again:
10 - more melancholy. More on the back of the beat. I like it. Very deliberate, or perhaps purposeful. Well done, and next section quite intense in comparison.
11 - Too many hesitations (rubato) and thus, too stilted (stop and start). I'd like it if not for this, but irritating because of it. Maddening, really.
12 - Nice, but perhaps a bit too top heavy. Or perhaps I don't like the piano sound. Some stop and go doesn't help.
13 - Sounds warped and another piano I don't like the sound of. Anyway, faster and quite pingy (and unsteady to boot). Uggh.
14 - Also faster, and also just as uneven in rhythm and rubato. But overall, much better than 11, 12, and 13. Ending more powerful. This part is pretty awesome.
15 - Another one where the phrasing makes the rhythms come across differently. Perhaps a bit static too. Rather electrifying at the end.
16 - Mushy and echo-y, and pingy, but there is a warmth in the sound. The reverb is hard to ignore.
17 - A bit slower, but it seems to flow better. A bit of a relief from the past several. And then he (or she) just go nuts at the end!
18 - Faster, but much more cohesive. Here's a fast one I like, it has clarity of direction. Ending is violent enough, but speed is perhaps too similar to opening.

My two favorites, 10 and 18, couldn't be more different really. And I thought they stood quite a bit ahead of the others. When I went back to 10, there it just something about the way it is played that touches me. I think, in part, it is a lighter touch on the rubato, which makes it softer and more poignant. It allows the line to be more clearly heard/felt.
Order: 10, 18 <<< gap>>> 15, 17, 14, 16, 11, 13, 12

Holden · February 16, 2017, 05:48:38 PM

I like 18 the best. I find the speed OK and it coheres, with long phrase lines (unlike #11 where the phrasing is almost every four beats).

#18 comes in second for me, once more for coherence and very subtle use of rubato. The rest I'll decide on later but these two stood out.

Pat B · February 16, 2017, 07:39:47 PM

Quote from: amw on February 15, 2017, 04:50:04 PM
Edna Stern is pretty good I think. Worth a listen anyway, I preferred her to Schoenderwooerd at least...

Thanks for the suggestion (and for actually reading my post, which turned out a lot longer than I intended). And for running the comparison.

Ubiquitous · February 17, 2017, 05:16:38 AM

A 'thank you' to the three listeners and the first ranking after two days. A tiny unwrapping for the guessers: 3 deceased, 2 compatriots of the composer, 2 women, 2 on Pleyels, 2 from Western Hemisphere, 1 International Chopin Competition winner.

Quote from: Holden on February 16, 2017, 05:48:38 PM
I like 18 the best.
#18 comes in second for me

There seems to be a typo here.

Holden · February 17, 2017, 10:45:45 AM

Quote from: Ubiquitous on February 17, 2017, 05:16:38 AM
A 'thank you' to the three listeners and the first ranking after two days. A tiny unwrapping for the guessers: 3 deceased, 2 compatriots of the composer, 2 women, 2 on Pleyels, 2 from Western Hemisphere, 1 International Chopin Competition winner.

There seems to be a typo here.

Oops #18 is first and #10 is second.

Ubiquitous · February 18, 2017, 01:54:32 AM

The outline of Ballade No. 2's design:
              Bars     Key
Theme I            1-46      F major
Theme II           47-82      A minor
Theme I'           83-140 F major
Theme II'           141-168 A minor
Closing (refs to II & I) 169-204 A minor

Cato · February 18, 2017, 02:09:36 AM

Okay, this time with headphones, and some things have changed:

10 - Why did I call the Presto "average" ? It did not seem so this time!

11 - I liked it even more this time! This might be the challenger to knock off Herr Zimerman!

12 - Again, I liked it more this time!

15 - It did not seem overly loud this time.

17 - Wow! Was this Rachmaninoff when he was in his best/worst manic depressive state? One wishes for a modern recording!

18 - I did not care for the Presto quite as much this time.

Here we go!

11

12/17

18

10

15

14

16

13

Ubiquitous · February 19, 2017, 03:55:01 AM

Thank you, Cato.

After 4 days and some 700+ thread views we have complete scores of only two judges. I'll name the names on Wednesday, no matter what.

I wonder if these 'Mini-Blind's could be done in Polling Station section for the sake of attendance.

Cato · February 19, 2017, 04:47:37 AM

Quote from: Ubiquitous on February 19, 2017, 03:55:01 AM
Thank you, Cato.

After 4 days and some 700+ thread views we have complete scores of only two judges. I'll name the names on Wednesday, no matter what.

I wonder if these 'Mini-Blind's could be done in Polling Station section for the sake of attendance.

Many thanks to you for such an effort, and one done so quickly!

I have come to the conclusion that Life today is so hectic, so "scatter-shot" in its duties and opportunities and temptations, that people end up not responding to their promises. And so I am not sure that the Polling Station idea would work, but who knows?

A modest response may be the best one can hope for these days. 0:) One might think, given the number of members here, that more people would have more to say, but... I have been a GMG member for over a decade, and when I offered for the first time a musical work of my own, the response was also modest. To be sure, the composition lasted c. 25 minutes in a MIDI version, and so possibly, for many members, the time needed did not exist. And also, it may have been proof that I should definitely refrain from being a composer again!

I have noticed, however, in recent years that certain of the non-musical topics seem to generate more pages and interest than the musical ones!

Ubiquitous · February 21, 2017, 07:30:53 AM

Less than 22 hours left to reveal. 18 and 10 are head-to-head

Quote from: Cato on February 19, 2017, 04:47:37 AM
Many thanks to you for such an effort, and one done so quickly!

Sure. It was an easy task.

Quote from: Cato on February 19, 2017, 04:47:37 AM
I have noticed, however, in recent years that certain of the non-musical topics seem to generate more pages and interest than the musical ones!

It's not hard to understand why after taking a peak at the forum. I hope you'll like the names.

Cato · February 21, 2017, 04:17:23 PM

Quote from: Cato on February 19, 2017, 04:47:37 AM

A modest response may be the best one can hope for these days. 0:) One might think, given the number of members here, that more people would have more to say, but... I have been a GMG member for over a decade, and when I offered for the first time a musical work of my own, the response was also modest. To be sure, the composition lasted c. 25 minutes in a MIDI version, and so possibly, for many members, the time needed did not exist. And also, it may have been proof that I should definitely refrain from being a composer again!

I have noticed, however, in recent years that certain of the non-musical topics seem to generate more pages and interest than the musical ones!

Quote from: Ubiquitous on February 21, 2017, 07:30:53 AM

It's not hard to understand why...

0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:) 0:)

Pat B · February 21, 2017, 10:20:22 PM

4 groupings, from best to least good:

14 15
18
12 13 16
10 11 17

I have to admit I didn't listen as carefully as the first set.

Ubiquitous · February 22, 2017, 05:01:40 AM

Quote from: Pat B on February 21, 2017, 10:20:22 PM
I have to admit I didn't listen as carefully as the first set.

Thanks. That's always an encouraging and motivating factor for the second set preparer.

Ubiquitous · February 22, 2017, 05:04:49 AM

mc ukrneal · February 22, 2017, 08:42:20 AM

Quote from: Ubiquitous on February 22, 2017, 05:04:49 AM
Thanks to the 3 complete rankings by mc ukrneal, Cato and Pat B:

9th Place:
Pianist #13: Arthur Schoonderwoerd on Alpha 147
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/v0iaja88mo1z03r/Pianist%2013.mp3[/audio]

8th Place:
Pianist #16: Nelson Goerner on Fryderyk Chopin Institute 3
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/tpz7pxytio7qxlf/Pianist%2016.mp3[/audio]

7th Place:
Pianist #12: Janusz Olejniczak on Sony 87739
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/91y12mugi7rrrc0/Pianist%2012.mp3[/audio]

6th Place:
Pianist #11: Lise de la Salle on Naive 5215
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3cme9uki16yz040/Pianist%2011.mp3[/audio]

5th Place:
Pianist #17: Sviatoslav Richter on Urania 4231
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fhtcagj8lm399qe/Pianist%2017b.mp3[/audio]

3rd Place:
Pianist #10: Nikita Magaloff on Newton 8802076
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ghoyl2ghi999nns/Pianist%2010.mp3[/audio]

&

&
Pianist #14: Adam Harasiewicz on Newton 8802015
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lw9uwjvhy7qvgdk/Pianist%2014.mp3[/audio]

2nd Place:
Pianist #15: Earl Wild on Ivory 75001
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/pop1fm5pwxfdtrc/Pianist%2015.mp3[/audio]

1st Place:
Pianist #18: Janina Fialkowska on Atma 2666
[audio]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8e9npml5g6rmiul/Pianist%2018.mp3[/audio]

Thanks for organizing! I think #18 is perhaps more repeatable, but the opening to #10 still really grabs me. I don't think I have either Magaloff or Fialkowska in my collection, but may add some one of these days! Really enjoyed it!!

Pat B · February 22, 2017, 09:01:23 AM

Thanks for running that. Nice selection of pianists.

Ubiquitous · February 22, 2017, 10:48:47 AM

My other two batches were going to be:

19-27: cherkassky - kissin - ohlsson - switala - perlemuter - arrau - tharaud - ashkenazy - biret

28-36: lortie - ax - hobson - feltsman - graffman - sheng - ousset - demidenko - glemser

aukhawk · February 23, 2017, 12:08:36 AM

And even at no.36 that still doesn't include the only version I've heard in full (accidentally, as a filler for the Preludes) - Jorge Bolet, on Decca

mc ukrneal · February 23, 2017, 06:48:14 AM

Quote from: Ubiquitous on February 22, 2017, 10:48:47 AM
My other two batches were going to be:

19-27: cherkassky - kissin - ohlsson - switala - perlemuter - arrau - tharaud - ashkenazy - biret

28-36: lortie - ax - hobson - feltsman - graffman - sheng - ousset - demidenko - glemser

That is some collection! Is Chopin a favorite?