New Tristan und Isolde DVD announced

[Renfield]

In brief, I agree with you max in principal, I just do not want to see the Ring Cycle and other operas turned into "cartoons".

  marvin

To be entirely honest, I could imagine a fantastic adaptation of Wagner's operas in anime (Japanese moving picture), which would also be relatively cheap to make. But if the audience would be small for the movie, for this one it'd be beyond "niche", of course!

On topic, Gramophone seemed to like that Barenboim Tristan quite a lot.

[head-case]

  With regards to opera animations I do not think I would be interested in a Ring Cycle with animated  "cartoon like" characters with lip movements synchronized to voices.  However if a Der Ring des Nibelungen were to be produced/directed as a big budget Hollywood style film (similar to the Lord of the Rings) where the principal characters are played by the actual singers dressed in costumes and makeup and the special effects in the style of the Lord of the rings are incorporated then I would definitely be interested in that (Its been done with the opera movies of Strauss' Elektra (Bohm-DG) and Salome (Bohm-DG) with tremendous success). I wouldn't even mind if the singers moved their lips to their synchronized voices. I think its time for Wagner's operas to get a makeover as well. In brief, I agree with you max in principal, I just do not want to see the Ring Cycle and other operas turned into "cartoons".

  marvin

By what measure would you consider Elektra and Salome tremendous successes?  If you took the money that was earned by Elektra and Salome and used it to produce a Hollywood movie you would not have "Lord of the Rings" style special effects.  You would have enough money to buy a Macintosh and hire a pimply-faced teenager to make a You-Tube video out of it.  Besides, Karajan was only able to muster enough resources to produce a Rheingold film and, although the music is sublime, the film production values are laughable.

[marvinbrown]

By what measure would you consider Elektra and Salome tremendous successes?  If you took the money that was earned by Elektra and Salome and used it to produce a Hollywood movie you would not have "Lord of the Rings" style special effects.  You would have enough money to buy a Macintosh and hire a pimply-faced teenager to make a You-Tube video out of it.  Besides, Karajan was only able to muster enough resources to produce a Rheingold film and, although the music is sublime, the film production values are laughable.

  Well,  I have to admit that that whole grunge setting with the falling rain in Elektra was quite captivating.  Salome as well with that underground dungeon, the dark skies all make these two operas visually appealing.  But you are right, operas do not make a lot of money and to lavishly spent on a big production of the Ring Cycle could be risky in terms of revenue.

  marvin   

 

[head-case]

  Well,  I have to admit that that whole grunge setting with the falling rain in Elektra was quite captivating.  Salome as well with that underground dungeon, the dark skies all make these two operas visually appealing.  But you are right, operas do not make a lot of money and to lavishly spent on a big production of the Ring Cycle could be risky in terms of revenue.

  marvin   

 

No argument that the films were nicely done, but they were far from elaborate productions, sort of on-par with a 60's Star Trek episode.

[David Zalman]

  With regards to opera animations I do not think I would be interested in a Ring Cycle with animated  "cartoon like" characters with lip movements synchronized to voices.  However if a Der Ring des Nibelungen were to be produced/directed as a big budget Hollywood style film (similar to the Lord of the Rings) where the principal characters are played by the actual singers dressed in costumes and makeup and the special effects in the style of the Lord of the rings are incorporated then I would definitely be interested in that (Its been done with the opera movies of Strauss' Elektra (Bohm-DG) and Salome (Bohm-DG) with tremendous success). I wouldn't even mind if the singers moved their lips to their synchronized voices. I think its time for Wagner's operas to get a makeover as well. In brief, I agree with you max in principal, I just do not want to see the Ring Cycle and other operas turned into "cartoons".

How about this sort of "cartoon"?  (The following from a 2005 post by ACD)

I've been a decades-long advocate of the idea (I like to think it original with me, but it probably isn't) that the only way to do this work full proper justice is via the medium of film. Or to put it more correctly, via the medium of the animated film. Wagner couldn't have known it, of course, but his inner vision of the Ring was fundamentally cinematic; could in fact be realized fully only by way of cinema. Wagner, were he alive today, would, I imagine, visualize such a cinematic realization in terms of live singing actors in natural settings rather than drawn animated figures and settings, but he would be wrong about that. The abstraction of animation is what's called for and needed here.

And I don't mean animation animated in 3D CGI fashion. [...] And I don't mean animated in any fashion that would be familiar to anyone today. I mean animated in a fashion that today is still not feasible absent a budget that would equal the GNP of a medium-sized country. I mean animated — figures and settings — in the style of these illustrations in all their rich detail, employing single-frame-fluid, multi-plane-depth, drawn animation. Computer power today is still not powerful enough to do such a thing economically. But it will be.

[marvinbrown]

How about this sort of "cartoon"?  (The following from a 2005 post by ACD)

  Yes David I would be all for that.  Take a look at Ring 3 with Alberich lusting after those beautifully seductive Rheinmadens, incredible...I love that animantion why hasn't the industry picked up on this.....visually very appealling and as true to Wagner's mythical seetings as one could possibly get.  I am afraid I am going to have to recant on my objection to an animated Ring after I saw those wonderful pictures. Imagine if they superimpose the Solti Ring on that....I think we might have a winner here!

  marvin

[Josquin des Prez]

Wagner, were he alive today, would, I imagine, visualize such a cinematic realization in terms of live singing actors in natural settings rather than drawn animated figures and settings, but he would be wrong about that. The abstraction of animation is what's called for and needed here.

A peculiarly convincing argument.

[Anne]

Bill Gates needs to be given some "culture."  Then he and Disney films could cooperate on the cinema project.  The Disney brother?  nephew?  grandson?  is in favor of doing more artistic films.  I saw an interview with him on the old "Arts and Entertainment" US TV program.  I think the Ring would be right up their alley.