What type of CD collector are you?

[Hector]

What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore. But I still see the worth in that extreme interpretation. It's just another take. But to universally damn him seems churlish, I have some wonderful recordings by him.

I do not think so but he does generate a vociferous debate that other, dead, conductors do not.

Personally, I believe he made a number of recordings that will be difficult to match let alone surpass.

However, his card-carrying Nazi past and his beliefs and attitudes tend to antagonise many.

[marvinbrown]

Personally, I believe he made a number of recordings that will be difficult to match let alone surpass.

  Yes and the Beethoven Symphony Cycle with the BPO 1963 is among those recordings.


  marvin

[Great Gable]

However, his card-carrying Nazi past and his beliefs and attitudes tend to antagonise many.

That's a very easy but somewhat tenuous reason but I'm sure that's often the case.

[Mark]

What is so wrong with Karajan? He seems universally unpopular whichever forums one uses. Ok, he has occasionally applied the same brushstrokes to Vivaldi as he would to Brahms, thus rendering Vivaldi... well not Vivaldi anymore.

I thought that Karajan was disliked by some (and not just those who prefer HIP performances) because he could often turn the works he conducted into overly lush, homogenised 'walls of sound'. To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views.

[Great Gable]

^That's why I assumed he was disliked. Sure, that is valid when that interpretation is applied to the wrong works (Vivaldi etc) but when in context it he can sound wonderful. It does seem odd to vilify him with on such grounds. I judge on relative performance not reputation. Even my Furtwangler can be over the top.

[Renfield]

I thought that Karajan was disliked by some (and not just those who prefer HIP performances) because he could often turn the works he conducted into overly lush, homogenised 'walls of sound'. To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views.

Not to mention he was one of their less-enthusiastic members, who made fun of his "colleagues" on more than one occasion. Especially when compared to musicians like Bohm, Karajan seems entirely by-the-way, as far as his Nazi party membership was concerned.

(And let me note that there is an excellent account of all this in Richard Osborne's book, "Herbert von Karajan: A Life in Music", if anyone's interested; including the full transcript of his later "de-Nazification" (sic) trial. )

[Grazioso]

To dislike him simply for being a member of the Nazi party is as ridiculous as dismissing the compositional accomplishments of Wagner because of his anti-semetic views.

I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

And being a tepid Nazi isn't much of an excuse: remember that many left or did not join or even actively resisted.

[Great Gable]

I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

And being a tepid Nazi isn't much of an excuse: remember that many left or did not join or even actively resisted.

Because being a member of the party was just that - a membership, and one which was foisted upon the population. Of course not everyone joined but purely being a member does not imply any wrong doing on the part of that member. If any Nazi party member was guilty of war crimes he was brought to justice in some shape of form.
I still hear people railing aginst Furtwangler and he wasn't a member. They dislike the fact that he remained in Germany for the duration. Often these things are just an easy excuse to opine a dislike for. People will always find some reason if they are that way inclined. It is the nature of mankind to hate.

Fifty years down the line and to still hold that against someone is folly. What happened to the spirit of forgiveness? Should we dislike all Germans still? I know some who do, which is really sad.

Personally I do not care about anyone's politics, however controversial they may be. It is up to the individual to make that assessment.

[Que]

Because being a member of the party was just that - a membership, and one which was foisted upon the population. Of course not everyone joined but purely being a member does not imply any wrong doing on the part of that member. If any Nazi party member was guilty of war crimes he was brought to justice in some shape of form.
I still hear people railing aginst Furtwangler and he wasn't a member. They dislike the fact that he remained in Germany for the duration. Often these things are just an easy excuse to opine a dislike for. People will always find some reason if they are that way inclined. It is the nature of mankind to hate.

Fifty years down the line and to still hold that against someone is folly. What happened to the spirit of forgiveness? Should we dislike all Germans still? I know some who do, which is really sad.

Personally I do not care about anyone's politics, however controversial they may be. It is up to the individual to make that assessment.

Funny, how always the names of Von Karajan - a party member but probably not a sympathiser - and Furtwängler - not a party member and definitely not a sympathiser - pop up....
While the names of real Nazi adherents like Karl Böhm are hardly ever mentioned.

Q

[Great Gable]

I love irony

As I was typing the above reply this popped through the letterbox (I kid you not)

[Renfield]

Funny, how always the names of Von Karajan - a party member but probably not a sympathiser - and Furtwängler - not a party member and definitely not a sympathiser - pop up....
While the names of real Nazi adherents like Karl Böhm are hardly ever mentioned.

Q

Not to mention he was one of their less-enthusiastic members, who made fun of his "colleagues" on more than one occasion. Especially when compared to musicians like Bohm, Karajan seems entirely by-the-way, as far as his Nazi party membership was concerned.

[Que]

indeed! 

[Mark]

I don't know much about HvK's history and therefore can't comment on that, but why is it ridiculous to dislike someone for being a Nazi? If there were ever a good cause for animosity and disdain, that's it. If a significant composer or conductor belonged to the KKK, would that not bother you? Or is that a sin you're willing to forgive and forget so you could enjoy his music-making?

I think you misunderstood me. When I used the word 'dislike', I was referring to people's alleged dislike of his work as an artist, as a conductor, simply because he was a Nazi party member (yes, I have heard such nonsense spoken ). Like yourself, I've no real interest in politics - from years past or in the present - so I shan't be drawn on what I think about any performer's membership of any dubious or unsavoury political movement or organisation.

[Kuhlau]

Y'know, with so many newcomers recently, I figured this bit of light-heartedness was worth a bump.

FK

[George]

Comprehensive for sure!

[Coopmv]

Comprehensive for sure!

Same here and I do not mean to be a copycat.  With the LP/CD count for JS Bach closing in on 1000 and the total number of LvB Symphonies cycles marching toward 20, I am anything but a casual collector.  George has got me started on the Beethoven Piano Sonatas as well ...   

[haydnguy]

I'm definitely exploratory both because I'm new to classical music but also because I am very eclectic. I think that I will always be exploratory to some degree. 

[Senta]

Uhoh...I'm mostly Obsessive. But also Explorative, and often Impulsive too! 

[marvinbrown]

  Previously I had voted definitive and many respects I still am (Gotta have those really "great" recordings if you know what I mean).  However during the past 2 years I have become very explorative- I must have added at least 20 new composers to my collection during the past year and half alone!

  marvin

[Jay F]

Definitive. I don't want all the CDs, I want all the right CDs. How I got to definitive, however, was to be both obsessive and expansive starting twenty-plus years ago.

I've learned that there are composers I don't like enough to have what some would consider a "well-rounded" collection. Nothing about listening to and collecting classical music makes the hair go up on the back of my neck is the notion that we must be well-rounded in our listening, or that there is a certain order in which we must approach listening. Bull dinkey.