The insanity of abundance!

[71 dB]

Anyone with an internet connection.

Internet rarely offers consensus on these issues.

If you think it is, then it is for you.

I think it is for me.

[Todd]

Internet rarely offers consensus on these issues.

I didn't say it offered consensus.  There is no consensus.  It is foolish to seek consensus on matters of taste.  However, there is a lot of information available which, when combined with awareness of one's tastes, allows one to make an educated guess about what might be the best first, second, or third (or more) option out there.  For instance, if I read comments that Composer X is very much like Allan Pettersson, or Pianist A is the new Glenn Gould, I'll pass.

[Parsifal]

Who the hell has the time to research who bettered Kodaly or Jeno Jando? The thing with Naxos is you buy it and you are happy with it and you save a lot of time, money and effort. Naxos makes life easy. I may want to explore several performances of my favorite composers (Elgar / Bach), but researching the best possible performances of ALL composers and works would be ridiculously time and money consuming! 

Some people enjoy listening to different recordings of favorite works, not to find the best one, but to enjoy the performances themselves. It makes little sense to condemn enjoyment as "time consuming." Being alive is time consuming.

[71 dB]

I didn't say it offered consensus.  There is no consensus.  It is foolish to seek consensus on matters of taste.  However, there is a lot of information available which, when combined with awareness of one's tastes, allows one to make an educated guess about what might be the best first, second, or third (or more) option out there.  For instance, if I read comments that Composer X is very much like Allan Pettersson, or Pianist A is the new Glenn Gould, I'll pass.

I agree with you about the non-existence of consensus, but your conditional logic seems extremely simplistic. I thought only idiots would think like that.  My head works on multiple level of abstractism and uses a large set of input information when available to come up with an opinion. For example, very much like Pettersson in what sense? Orchestration? Use of harmony? Development of thematic material? It makes a difference, because I might like Pettersson's orchestration but not his harmony. A new Glenn Gould? What is she/he playing? Is it something that calls for a Gould-like style of playing? There is so much variables and the result is a complex function of them. Therefor at least for me, it takes time and effort to sort out these things, not to mention the time spent to gather the available information.

[Jo498]

I think we had the Naxos discussion already several times.
Even 20-25 years ago one could pick up a review magazine. Or listen to CDs in some shops. Or listen to radio programs reviewing CDs. And even 20+ years ago one could buy a lot of music as cheap as Naxos or cheaper, but with more famous/more highly regarded artists.

Not with all music. The Kodaly Haydn op.20,4-6 was among the first 4 or so discs with Haydn quartets I bought. The very first was a similarly cheap live one with the Lindsay (scratchy but very enthusiastic and engaged), a Shosty disc with the Eder was probably the second disc of his quartets I got.
But this was 20 years ago. There are more options now and for music I am very interested in, I take some of these other options.

There is nothing wrong with it but nobody forces you to make Naxos your default. It's not a bad option but it is neither automatically the cheapest nor the best. As you are so used to thinking and evaluating things multi-dimensionally on many levels, I am somewhat surprised that you seem to stick to such a simplistic "if in doubt, buy Naxos" strategy.

[Todd]

Is it something that calls for a Gould-like style of playing?

Nothing calls for Glenn Gould style playing.  Your description of your thought processes reads more like a flow chart.  If it works for you, super. 

[71 dB]

As you are so used to thinking and evaluating things multi-dimensionally on many levels, I am somewhat surprised that you seem to stick to such a simplistic "if in doubt, buy Naxos" strategy.

As I said, gathering the information takes a lot of time and most of the time I go the easy way. I am interested of what the composers wrote. The information who performs the music best is not interesting to me.

[71 dB]

Nothing calls for Glenn Gould style playing. 

Is that why he is legendary?

[Todd]

As I said, gathering the information takes a lot of time and most of the time I go the easy way. I am interested of what the composers wrote. The information who performs the music best is not interesting to me.

You quoted the wrong person here somehow.

Is that why he is legendary?

That's mostly due to marketing. 

[71 dB]

You quoted the wrong person here somehow.

Something strange happened... 

That's mostly due to marketing.

Thanks, I'll inform some people I know who love the playing of Gould that they have been tricked with marketing.

[Parsifal]

As I said, gathering the information takes a lot of time and most of the time I go the easy way. I am interested of what the composers wrote. The information who performs the music best is not interesting to me.

You are not listening.

I think it is fair to say that those of us who have many recordings of the same work are not looking for the best. We enjoy perceiving a work from different perspectives. I have what most people would consider an unreasonable number of recordings of the Bach Suites for Cello Unaccompanied. I can enjoy the way Heinrich Schiff brings out dance rhythms, the way Fournier imparts an aristocratic sentimentality, the way Rostropovich brings out romantic pathos and the way many other performers bring something different to the same notes. It is not about finding the best, it is about finding another, previously overlooked layer in a fascinating work. That is one of the interesting things about Classical music where one person writes the piece and another performs it.

If you are not particularly interested in performance style then Naxos may well suit your taste best, since they typically find capable performers that do not impart a strong personal stamp on the performance. Do not interpret the fact that some of us are interested in something you are not interested in as an implicit rebuke.

[Sergeant Rock]

I think it is fair to say that those of us who have many recordings of the same work are not looking for the best. We enjoy perceiving a work from different perspectives.

Amen.

I have a dozen different quartets in Haydn. I can't think of any that I don't enjoy, including the Kodaly (I love their op.77).

Sarge

[Todd]

Thanks, I'll inform some people I know who love the playing of Gould that they have been tricked with marketing.

Not tricked, persuaded.  That's what marketing is for.  And it works.  There is no reason to believe that the classical music recording industry, being merely a small portion of a much larger industry, is any different than, say, potato chips in that regard.

The reality is that some once "legendary" figures are fading in significance, and some have more or less disappeared.  Based on discussions here and at other forums, Gould does not seem to have the same staying power of some other pianists (eg, Richter).

I think it is fair to say that those of us who have many recordings of the same work are not looking for the best. We enjoy perceiving a work from different perspectives.

True.  I long ago gave up worrying about finding the best.  After all, it's music, it's art, it's not a hundred meter dash.

[Jo498]

Gould must still be a top-seller for Sony, otherwise they would not bring out some new kind of Gould edition/box/reissue every few years. Of course it helps that Sony has all of his recordings whereas the Richter bootlegs are spread over many labels.

[Parsifal]

Gould must still be a top-seller for Sony, otherwise they would not bring out some new kind of Gould edition/box/reissue every few years. Of course it helps that Sony has all of his recordings whereas the Richter bootlegs are spread over many labels.

Kempff and Arrau will never fade! (I've never been a Richterite or a Gouldie.)

[71 dB]

If you are not particularly interested in performance style then Naxos may well suit your taste best, since they typically find capable performers that do not impart a strong personal stamp on the performance.

That's how I see it! I like the "neutral" approach of Naxos. It lets the music out uncoloured. Strong personal stamp can be bad for the music.

[71 dB]

Not tricked, persuaded.  That's what marketing is for.  And it works.  There is no reason to believe that the classical music recording industry, being merely a small portion of a much larger industry, is any different than, say, potato chips in that regard.

Let me guess: You haven't been persuaded by marketing, only people who disagree with you? 

[Jo498]

Kempff and Arrau will never fade! (I've never been a Richterite or a Gouldie.)

Arrau's legacy has actually been rather poorly presented by Universal in the last ca. 20 years. (This is quite astonishing for me because Arrau was still alive when I got into classical and together with Horowitz the most famous of the "old pianists"). Quite a bit has been oop for more than a decade. And the messed up the most recent issue of the Beethoven sonatas by cutting a second or so from the beginning of the Eroica variations.
This is not at all comparable to Gould who gets a new box or edition every few years.

[Parsifal]

Let me guess: You haven't been persuaded by marketing, only people who disagree with you? 

You present yourself as a person with a scientific outlook. Let me make a statical argument. A person who owns a single CD classical music, and it is Glen Gould's recording of the Goldberg Variations (perhaps the most hyped classical recording in history), has probably been influenced by marketing. A person who owns ~100 recordings of the complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas is probably not as much influenced by marketing.

Into which category do you place Todd?

That's how I see it! I like the "neutral" approach of Naxos. It lets the music out uncoloured. Strong personal stamp can be bad for the music.

Oh lord, where will I find an adequate "eyeroll" emoticon?

[Todd]

Let me guess: You haven't been persuaded by marketing, only people who disagree with you? 

Oh, of course I have.  I've picked up more than a few CDs because of well done glamour shots.  This is a well known tool used by all record labels.  UMG has been open that Helene Grimaud titles that feature full head shots of her sell better than her titles that do not.  I don't particularly care for her recordings, but Naida Cole's two Decca titles are very fine, though she gave up her piano career.  Early on, I fell for the Gould mystique.  His Bach is entertaining, but not the best, but some of his other playing is dreadful (eg, Mozart).  It quickly became clear that Gould the eccentric genius was a good marketing gimmick.  That was what, ten reissue series ago?

Of course it helps that Sony has all of his recordings whereas the Richter bootlegs are spread over many labels.

Between UMG, Sony, and Warner, there are almost 100 major label Richter discs.  That's more than Gould.  Throw on top of that all the pirate editions, and there's much more Richter to be had.  But then, Richter was a real, performing pianist.  Gould became a studio-only artist, like The Beatles, only less enjoyable.  Richter is variable, and I generally don't care much for his late career stuff, but at his best, he is arguably the best. 

Arrau's legacy has actually been rather poorly presented by Universal in the last ca. 20 years.

True.  I'm hoping this is rectified with a big box like Gould gets over and over.