How long before a masterpiece grows tiresome?

[lisa needs braces]

Here's an example of what I mean. I adore Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. But I feel like I "know it" and that it doesn't offer any more "surprises" so to speak. The peak of my experience with the work was when I first realized as a listener just what an impressive piece of music it was -- perhaps the third, fourth, or fifth complete listens. Have probably heard it at least 12 more times since and it's as if there's a checkbox in my brain next to Brahms 2nd piano concerto that indicates "okay, done with that."

So just stay away from the piece of music for years on end and let it surprise me in the future?

All of which makes me curious how people can own 30 recordings of, say, the Beethoven sonatas. Isn't there a limit to many times the music can be heard?

[zamyrabyrd]

Well, how many times would a pianist practice a piano concerto or sonata? Probably hundreds of times.
Listening to a piece from beginning to the end is probably different, though.
Over the past week I listened to Berlioz' Harold in Italy at least 10x, after reading his Memoirs.
After downloading the score, I realized there was more than what meets the ear, so around the 5th listen I connected up a lot of diverse details together seeing them on the computer screen.
I put the CD on two successive nights before sleeping.
Somehow, my hearing became saturated (as you seemed to indicate) and I moved on to his Romeo and Juliet.

ZB

[lisa needs braces]

I'm learning music theory (finally!) in preparation for buying a digital piano in the near future -- and what you say (a pianist having to practice a piece or segments over and over again) concerns me! Will the music lose its charm by the end? Or will the thrill of accomplishment (managing to play the music decently) compensate for that? 

[zamyrabyrd]

I'm learning music theory (finally!) in preparation for buying a digital piano in the near future -- and what you say (a pianist having to practice a piece or segments over and over again) concerns me! Will the music lose its charm by the end? Or will the thrill of accomplishment (managing to play the music decently) compensate for that? 

Learning something is not having the finished product like a CD in front of you, so it is different. Also, you have to integrate all the components and work them into your technique and interpretation, not an easy task. I still have unsolved problems in pieces I played for a long time that still don't sit right. Even the greats say you never stop learning and improving.

ZB

[Karl Henning]

Well, how many times would a pianist practice a piano concerto or sonata? Probably hundreds of times.
Listening to a piece from beginning to the end is probably different, though.
Over the past week I listened to Berlioz' Harold in Italy at least 10x, after reading his Memoirs.
After downloading the score, I realized there was more than what meets the ear, so around the 5th listen I connected up a lot of diverse details together seeing them on the computer screen.
I put the CD on two successive nights before sleeping.
Somehow, my hearing became saturated (as you seemed to indicate) and I moved on to his Romeo and Juliet.

ZB

An old friend used to call this "listen to destruct"

[Alek Hidell]

I understand this phenomenon well. I almost never listen to a new piece, or album, or whatever, twice in a row or semi-obsessively over a short period of time, no matter how much I like it. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that.

I do find, however, that if I let a piece of music lie fallow, as it were, and come back to it later, I can appreciate it almost as if hearing it for the first time. There's always that moment when you say, "Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part." Or, even better, I hear something I hadn't heard before.

I don't advise staying away from a piece for years (but then again, with all the unheard music I have, it's going to happen anyway ). A period of months is sufficient for me.

[Monsieur Croche]

If "Familiarity Breeds Contempt" isn't exactly apposite, then certainly "Familiarity Breeds Too Much Familiarity" is close enough to mark the 'space' you find yourself in.

On the other hand, Brahms' 2nd Piano Concerto is 136 years old:  There is another pretty resounding (and concrete) answer to your question ;-)

You can never have that 1st experience twice, at least not exactly: similarly, you can only sight-read a piece once!

Haydn said that if a piece remained in general circulation and was generally performed over about 70 years, that that was about the best any composer could hope for or expect (there is extreme irony, there, of course, lol.)  What I think this shrewd composer sensed was after several full generations, people would naturally want something else; the likelihood that what was said two generations ago might not speak to later audiences was a very good guess on his part.

Haydn, and any composer who lived prior the age of recordings and broadcasts of performances and recordings, never imagined that any listener would hear one piece seventy or more times in their entire lifetime!  None of us should at all expect a piece to hold our attention in the same way it first did when we give it so many repeated hearings.

In the instances of so many repeated hearings, it is the listener who has worn out their welcome as a guest of the piece, not vice versa....  When you find yourself at that juncture, it is time to visit other people, pieces, places and things.  Drop in later on your old friend, and what you hear and notice might just have a freshened aspect you can not at the moment think possible.  Since there is literally an ocean of very fine music from the multiplicity of historic eras, this should not be such a challenge.


Best regards.

[some guy]

In the instances of so many repeated hearings, it is the listener who has worn out their welcome as a guest of the piece, not vice versa....

Yeah, that's the good stuff.

I love how your mind works.

[Todd]

All of which makes me curious how people can own 30 recordings of, say, the Beethoven sonatas. Isn't there a limit to many times the music can be heard?

No.

[lisa needs braces]

Well Todd, by all means keep enjoying your 80 recordings of the LvB sonatas. I only ever return to the Richard Goode cycle. Different strokes, different folk, etc.

[some guy]

A really excellent example of what's not said being louder (more prominent) than what is said.

If I were still teaching writing....

[lisa needs braces]

If "Familiarity Breeds Contempt" isn't exactly apposite, then certainly "Familiarity Breeds Too Much Familiarity" is close enough to mark the 'space' you find yourself in.

On the other hand, Brahms' 2nd Piano Concerto is 136 years old:  There is another pretty resounding (and concrete) answer to your question ;-)

You can never have that 1st experience twice[/i], at least not exactly: similarly, you can only sight-read a piece once!

Haydn said that if a piece remained in general circulation and was generally performed over about 70 years, that that was about the best any composer could hope for or expect (there is extreme irony, there, of course, lol.)  What I think this shrewd composer sensed was after several full generations, people would naturally want something else; the likelihood that what was said two generations ago might not speak to later audiences was a very good guess on his part.

Haydn, and any composer who lived prior the age of recordings and broadcasts of performances and recordings, never imagined that any listener would hear one piece seventy or more times in their entire lifetime!  None of us should at all expect a piece to hold our attention in the same way it first did when we give it so many repeated hearings.

In the instances of so many repeated hearings, it is the listener who has worn out their welcome as a guest of the piece, not vice versa....  When you find yourself at that juncture, it is time to visit other people, pieces, places and things.  Drop in later on your old friend, and what you hear and notice might just have a freshened aspect you can not at the moment think possible.  Since there is literally an ocean of very fine music from the multiplicity of historic eras, this should not be such a challenge.


Best regards.

I like your comparison of pieces of music to people/places. Recall hearing about musicologist Joseph Kerman raising that comparison about LvB's symphonies -- as things that seemingly grow and have something new to tell you after an absence.