Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)

[kishnevi]

I think deluxe refers to the packaging.

As it happens,  I am listening to the Quatour Mosaiques recording of the late quartets right now (CD 1, nos 12 and 14). Despite the gut strings and A=432, I am most reminded of Quartetto Italiano.

[Madiel]

I would have happily bought that Takacs box, if I hadn't already bought the Middle and Late quartets from the series. Hunted them down only a couple of years ago.

[amw]

The Takács early quartets are also worth it, fwiw. (That's a cycle I'm definitely looking forward to reviewing)

[Madiel]

The Takács early quartets are also worth it, fwiw. (That's a cycle I'm definitely looking forward to reviewing)

I've no doubt they are, but I already had the Tokyo Qt in those and I don't think the 3 separate Takacs sets were particularly cheap when I was looking for them. So I didn't double-up. With the new format I think I would have been happy with the overlap.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

To what extent is the edition deluxe? Is it claimed that the compact discs are "remastered?" The recordings are from 2002-2004 and from the booklet it appears they were recorded using standard PCM technology. My experience is that the original releases of recordings from that general time frame are already more or less as good as they are going to get.

Jeffrey is right: It refers to the packaging -- BUT also to the fact that the cycle is included as an Audio-Blu-ray and they throw in a DVD.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

The Takács early quartets are also worth it, fwiw. (That's a cycle I'm definitely looking forward to reviewing)

I agree; although I consider them the leaders of the large pack (see http://ionarts.blogspot.de/2017/09/a-survey-of-beethoven-string-quartet.html), it's their op.18 that stands out more than the rest.
But then again, op.18 is the set that more quartets get right than they do the rest...

[SonicMan46]

Hey All - I have owned the complete Tackás recordings for a while (i.e. the 3 top images below, a total of 7 CDs) - now I see on Amazon, the box at the bottom, a new offering w/ 9 discs, i.e. the 7 CDs + audio BD + bonus DVD - my question is whether these recordings have been remastered and also for those who have listened to the CDs vs. the audio BD, is the sound MUCH improved?  My BD player is connected to my receiver via a digital fiber optic Toslink cable - speakers are older EV stereo only - is this 'new' package worth my exploration?  Thanks for any comments.  Dave



 

[SonicMan46]

Well, still curious about the 'new' Takacs Quartet release - found a brief description (first image below) stating that the original recordings were remastered and that an HF audio BD was also produced (along w/ a bonus DVD) - just for comparison, my other 'complete' set of these works is by the Alexander String Quartet (2nd image below), which has been highly lauded - an excellent review is attached for those interested.  Dave

 

[Parsifal]

Well, still curious about the 'new' Takacs Quartet release - found a brief description (first image below) stating that the original recordings were remastered and that an HF audio BD was also produced (along w/ a bonus DVD) - just for comparison, my other 'complete' set of these works is by the Alexander String Quartet (2nd image below), which has been highly lauded - an excellent review is attached for those interested.  Dave

 

Typical vague advertising copy. They don't say what the format of the original tapes is. Were the original tapes 24-bit, 48 kHz, in which case the Bluray disc is giving the original resolution? Were they some other format and reprocessed to 24-bit, 48 kHz?

Certainly a very fine set and nice that they have a reasonably priced reissue, but I think whether it sounds different will depend on remastering choices, such as whether they have a multi-channel recording that they can remix with adjusted balances.

Regarding the Alexander quartet, I recall when it came out a bunch of "reviews" immediately appeared on Amazon claiming it was the greatest piece of recorded music in the history of civilization. Maybe they were paid, maybe they were written by the performer's mothers, but they seemed so obviously fake that I was put off and probably prevented me from buying the set.

[SonicMan46]

Typical vague advertising copy. They don't say what the format of the original tapes is. Were the original tapes 24-bit, 48 kHz, in which case the Bluray disc is giving the original resolution? Were they some other format and reprocessed to 24-bit, 48 kHz?

Certainly a very fine set and nice that they have a reasonably priced reissue, but I think whether it sounds different will depend on remastering choices, such as whether they have a multi-channel recording that they can remix with adjusted balances.

Regarding the Alexander quartet, I recall when it came out a bunch of "reviews" immediately appeared on Amazon claiming it was the greatest piece of recorded music in the history of civilization. Maybe they were paid, maybe they were written by the performer's mothers, but they seemed so obviously fake that I was put off and probably prevented me from buying the set.

Agree about the 'scanty' information in the pic that I posted - the review that I attached is from MusicWeb and is well done in my mind (and doubt the reviewer is a relative -  ) -

I didn't see or don't remember the reviews for the Alexander Quartet set, but I have it in my Amazon library (not purchased)  and it is a solid/decent, but not exceptional, set.  As is the case for all these complete sets some quartets are better than others. 

I also have the Takacs, but while not having done any kind of comparions, I think of the Takacs as better overall.

San Antone - if not already done, take a look at the review that I attached in my post. Dave

[Parsifal]

Agree about the 'scanty' information in the pic that I posted - the review that I attached is from MusicWeb and is well done in my mind (and doubt the reviewer is a relative -  ) -

Memories are returning (although they may be wrong). I seem to remember some hype at the time that they were using a specially matched set of violins and this was being pushed hard in some reviews. Maybe my memory is playing tricks.

In any case, I'm not in the market for more Beethoven String Quartets, I have too many sets to listen to as it is. I can relate to Mit Romney who, when asked during the campaign event, couldn't remember how many houses he had.

[Brian]

Memories are returning (although they may be wrong). I seem to remember some hype at the time that they were using a specially matched set of violins and this was being pushed hard in some reviews. Maybe my memory is playing tricks.

In any case, I'm not in the market for more Beethoven String Quartets, I have too many sets to listen to as it is. I can relate to Mit Romney who, when asked during the campaign event, couldn't remember how many houses he had.

It's possible that the reviewers were in the know already because the box set was a compilation of three previously-released mini-sets of the early, middle, and late sonatas. Given the special set of violins comment, it seems unlikely that Amazon did their usual botch job of accidentally porting over reviews from the wrong item (in this case the ASQ's totally different Arte Nova recording cycle), as happens with different translations of the same Russian novel.

The Foghorn set (which I love) is recorded on a complete "quartet" of newly built instruments, and there is a little flyer in the set about the instrument-maker, kind of like the little cards you get telling you a restaurant has a Saturday buffet. I can't say that the instruments are a big sell to me, though the Judith Sherman engineering is.

[Parsifal]

The Foghorn set (which I love) is recorded on a complete "quartet" of newly built instruments, and there is a little flyer in the set about the instrument-maker, kind of like the little cards you get telling you a restaurant has a Saturday buffet. I can't say that the instruments are a big sell to me, though the Judith Sherman engineering is.

That's what I'm remembering, a bunch of reviews lauding the instruments, which struck me as blatant boosterism. They don't seem to be around anymore.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Agree about the 'scanty' information in the pic that I posted - the review that I attached is from MusicWeb and is well done in my mind (and doubt the reviewer is a relative -  ) -

Even a modestly reliable critic can be right by accident. Don't know if Brian reviewed that set for MWeb, too, but he certainly loves it no less.
Myself, I think that the op.18 of that set is terrific and up there with the best. That said, they don't touch Takacs over the whole 16.

[SonicMan46]

Cookson is a damnable hack, but that's not to say that he can't be right, by accident. Don't know if Brian reviewed that set for MWeb, too, but he certainly loves it no less.
Myself, I think that the op.18 of that set is terrific and up there with the best. That said, they don't touch Takacs over the whole 16.

Well, I've had the Takács SQ recordings for a while (bought cheaply when I was a member of the BMG club) and certainly a favorite, but I do like the Alexander SQ also - today, started to listen to both groups and will make that my project for the rest of the week - still debating on whether to buy that new box release - not that expensive on Amazon USA and like the bonus material including a large booklet? 

Below a pic of the Takács members from 2001 (in 2005, the violist change, now Geraldine Walther) - also just purchased the Kindle book shown by the first violinist, Edward Dusinberre and am about a third through the 2016 publication - description/comments at Amazon, if interested.  Dave
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[SurprisedByBeauty]

#morninglistening to #LvB #pianoconcertos w/@CleveOrchestra:

http://a-fwd.to/28qb0Pv

w/#VladimirAshkenazy.

I would argue this to be his best of the three #Beethoven #pianoconcerto cycles. The orchestra responds very nimbly. There is a reason these self-conducted affairs take place with the #clevelandorchestra!

#classicalmusic
#classicalmusiccollection #Decca #orchestralmusic #pianoconcertos #germanromanticism #Ludwigvan #ludwigvanbeethoven #classicalcdcollection

[Stathis]

Hello. About the controversial subject of Beethoven's tempi, I've been making some research and just realized one important fact that many maybe seem to be missing. The 9th was played in other parts of the world several months after it's debut in 1824, and received raving critiques. His other symphonies were also played by orchestras all over. So the conductors must have naturally followed the tempi that Beethoven marked. We have the original manuscript, and if it had wrong markings, they would have been corrected while Beethoven was still alive, in order for his 9th to have been played appropriately. The same goes for the broken metronome argument. Other conductors that played his symphonies must have communicated with Beethoven if they though his markings were off. Maybe some of these conductors were in the debut as well. The other argument that I've seen is that at the time they used one complete cycle of the metronome back and fourth, as one beat, so that would mean that the tempo should be halved, or something like that, and while not an expert on classical music, far from it, I am not sure about it, as it possibly wouldn't agree with the old system of "Allegro ma non troppo" e.t.c.

Also, Toscanini chose fast tempos, almost at the original markings, and since he was a conductor closer to Beethoven's time than most on record, maybe it's another hint. Of course Beethoven himself varied his tempi, and in the end it's up to the conductor to choose one that agrees with the orchestra, place and other factors, and produce a nice result. Listening to Norrington's and Toscanini's 1st movement of the 9th, they seem to make it work just fine, while on the other hand Furtwangler was very slow, but that allowed a dramatic feel to it. But probably not what Beethoven had in mind. Beethoven was a virtuoso, so it makes sense that most of his work is challenging, and it's challenging because it is fast.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

If you're interested in LvB Temo Questions and speak/understand German, this is good viewing.

North German Broadcasting 2-hour special about that subject (as part of a 4-hour thing about the Bremen Chamber Philharmonic).

Available for a few more days. https://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/sendungen/prisma_musik/Variationen-zum-Thema-02122017,audio362662.html

[Stathis]

Unfortunately I don't speak German, yet. A quick recap on the main points would help.

[jpar3]

My fave Beethoven:

Piano Sonata 0p 110
Cello Sonata Op 69
Egmont Overture
Piano Concerto 4
Waldstein Sonata
1st Rasumovsky Quartet
Kreutzer Sonata