Art that saves

[EmpNapoleon]

"I believe that through Art all men are saved."
-Wagner

[Don]

Do women enter this picture?

[karlhenning]

Do women enter this picture?

Question to Mr Wagner? . . .

[karlhenning]

Beauty will save the world. — Dostoyevsky

[EmpNapoleon]

Art saves?  This is as stupid as asking if there is God in Bruckner's music. 

Obviously Wagner meant to say "good art."  Otherwise, Saul's "paintings" would have helped me through many of life's harships.

[Lethevich]

Art saves?  This is as stupid as asking if there is God in Bruckner's music. 

Obviously Wagner meant to say "good art."  Otherwise, Saul's "paintings" would have helped me through many of life's harships.

In this context, "saving" is quite limited - rather restricted to saving the listener from bad music, by introducing them to good...

[karlhenning]

Otherwise, Saul's "paintings" would have helped me through many of life's harships.

You mean . . . they haven't?

[karlhenning]

In this context, "saving" is quite limited - rather restricted to saving the listener from bad music, by introducing them to good...

Interesting idea.  But I think that we'll find individuals who have found some personally significant type of salvific power in art.  Not that I think we could build a soteriology on that . . . .

[EmpNapoleon]

In this context, "saving" is quite limited - rather restricted to saving the listener from bad music, by introducing them to good...

I was joking about only good art that saves.  Did he mean that even poor art saves the artist who makes it (Saul)?  Metal listeners are redeemed as they bang their heads? 

Is being saved psychological?  Does it take one out of the misery of the body?  Wanger was all into Schopenhauer.  I don't think that it saves in the "intellectual/spiritual" sense.  Art needs the body. 

Music has an extraordinary power to put people in its own mood, even if they're unaware of this often subtle coercion.  Music is in restaurants, stores, commercials; everywhere it influences.  But it doesn't just take one out of the world one was in prior to listening and bring one to a place where one is saved, whatever that means.  Music is always felt.  I don't know what it means to be saved in a world of only feelings. 

[EmpNapoleon]

Thebes is diseased.  Here comes Oedipus!  The city is haunted.  Here come the Ghostbusters!

I know not all art implies purification and penance (music without pathos).  I'm just sick of the tragic world view (though it may be most profound).

Why did Wagner have "art that saves" in mind?  So he be the savior?  I don't know about that, but I love his music.  Though I can only save myself.

[Mozart]

Saved from what exactly? Art is just a demonstration of what man is capable of. But only a few capable men can create such an art.

[EmpNapoleon]

Saved from what exactly?

Good question.

[karlhenning]

Art is just a demonstration of what man is capable of.

With apologies, that is but an impoverished notion of Art.

[Mozart]

With apologies, that is but an impoverished notion of Art.

So what is your definition of capital a Art?
I may not know a lot about marble, but I can surely go to Florence and be impressed with the naked statue a guy sculpted hundreds of years ago. Am I supposed to have another feeling besides wow?

[BachQ]

With apologies, that is but an impoverished notion of Art.

No, it's a noble notion of Art .......

[karlhenning]

I may not know a lot about marble, but I can surely go to Florence and be impressed with the naked statue a guy sculpted hundreds of years ago. Am I supposed to have another feeling besides wow?

Perhaps.  Yes, perhaps.

[Mozart]

Well friend, I am still waiting for your higher definition of capital a Art to wipe out my impoverished one.

[jochanaan]

Laying aside for the moment the problematic question "What is 'being saved'?" my experience and instincts tell me that art can save, but it can also fail to save.  It did not save Wagner from being a creep.

[Kullervo]

Well friend, I am still waiting for your higher definition of capital a Art to wipe out my impoverished one.

Sarcasm is poisonous. Beware!

[Joe Barron]

Does art save? I believe it can, though perhaps not in the sense of redeeming the soul of the Volk, as Wagner wrote. His ideas are alittle too mystical for my taste.  Doing art is good therapy, however, as I know from first-hand experience. I credit music with saving my life.