Apple Lossless File Question

[MN Dave]

Why are the kbps's lower on some CDs than others? Does the music require less on older recordings?

Thanks.

[George]

Why are the kbps's lower on some CDs than others? Does the music require less on older recordings?

Thanks.

That's my understanding. The kbps's has to do with how much information is on the track, not just the length of the track. 

[MN Dave]

That's my understanding. The kbps's has to do with how much information is on the track, not just the length of the track. 

Thanks! Heck, it seems some CDs require little more kbps than an MP3, or else the lossless format requires less. I know nothing about this stuff.

[George]

Thanks! Heck, it seems some CDs require little more kbps than an MP3, or else the lossless format requires less. I know nothing about this stuff.

What I know is that there are two main considerations, size and quality of sound.

For the best quality of sound, WAV is the way to go. On itunes however, they offer apple lossless, which offers the same quality of sound, only using half the space. They do this by re-arranging the info on the track to make it as small as possible, without losing any information.

For the smallest size, go with an MP3 format, like 192 kbps or if your ears will tolerate it, something smaller. Again, on itunes, they offer AAC, which allows you to have a higher quality of sound at the same bitrate as MP3. For example, 192 AAC sounds better than 192 MP3.

 

[MN Dave]

What I know is that there are two main considerations, size and quality of sound.

For the best quality of sound, WAV is the way to go. On itunes however, they offer apple lossless, which offers the same quality of sound, only using half the space. They do this by re-arranging the info on the track to make it as small as possible, without losing any information.

For the smallest size, go with an MP3 format, like 192 kbps or if your ears will tolerate it, something smaller. Again, on itunes, they offer AAC, which allows you to have a higher quality of sound at the same bitrate as MP3. For example, 192 AAC sounds better than 192 MP3.

Yeah, I'll use lossless, though I think it might be a bit higher than half the space. Just a bit though.

And here's a question: What does "16 bit" mean?

[George]

Yeah, I'll use lossless, though I think it might be a bit higher than half the space. Just a bit though.

And here's a question: What does "16 bit" mean?

Dunno.

[71 dB]

Yeah, I'll use lossless, though I think it might be a bit higher than half the space. Just a bit though.

And here's a question: What does "16 bit" mean?

Lossless is about half of wav. Depends on the signal itself and how "intelligent" algorithm is used.

16 bits means the dynamic range. Digital signal is samples of the original analog signal taken with a certain sampling rate (44100 samples per second on CD.) These samples are quantized with certain number of bits (16 on CD). 16 bits can express 2^16=65536 different discrete amplitude values. In practice each bit gives about 6 dB dynamic range so 16 bits means a dynamic range of about 96 dB.

[MN Dave]

Lossless is about half of wav. Depends on the signal itself and how "intelligent" algorithm is used.

16 bits means the dynamic range. Digital signal is samples of the original analog signal taken with a certain sampling rate (44100 samples per second on CD.) These samples are quantized with certain number of bits (16 on CD). 16 bits can express 2^16=65536 different discrete amplitude values. In practice each bit gives about 6 dB dynamic range so 16 bits means a dynamic range of about 96 dB.

Um. So what does that mean to a layman?

[George]

Um. So what does that mean to a layman?

More bits is better.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Lossless is about half of wav. Depends on the signal itself and how "intelligent" algorithm is used.

16 bits means the dynamic range.

I think you mean 16 bits mean the resolution.

[71 dB]

Um. So what does that mean to a layman?

Nothing I guess. Let us engineers worry about the bits. 

More bits is better.

Yes, with PCM (pulse code modulation). For example SACD is a bitstream system (a 1-bit system) and still superior to CD because it's sampling rate is HUGE (2.8224 MHz).

I think you mean 16 bits mean the resolution.

Yes, resolution of the quantization process.  The dynamic range (signal-to-noise ratio) comes directly from that.

[Mark]

For the smallest size, go with an MP3 format, like 192 kbps or if your ears will tolerate it, something smaller. Again, on itunes, they offer AAC, which allows you to have a higher quality of sound at the same bitrate as MP3. For example, 192 AAC sounds better than 192 MP3.

George, a question: How do the 192kbps MP3s I've done for you in the past sound through your much-better-than-mine hifi?

[PerfectWagnerite]

Yes, resolution of the quantization process.  The dynamic range (signal-to-noise ratio) comes directly from that.

I don't want to nitpick but dynamic range and signal to noise ratio are completely different. If my signal is 10 Watts and my noise is 2 Watts then my signal to noise rato is 10/2 = 5 (non-dimensional unit). The dynamics range refers to the highest and lowest signal my sampling instrument can discern. They mean totally different things although naturally if a piece of instrument has less instrumental noise, thus a higher signal to noise rato after sampling the input, it will often have a wider dynamic range (but not always the case).

[George]

George, a question: How do the 192kbps MP3s I've done for you in the past sound through your much-better-than-mine hifi?

Was the Barenboim sample from the complete set you sent a 192 MP3?

[Mark]

Was the Barenboim sample from the complete set you sent a 192 MP3?

No, WAV.

[71 dB]

I don't want to nitpick but dynamic range and signal to noise ratio are completely different. If my signal is 10 Watts and my noise is 2 Watts then my signal to noise rato is 10/2 = 5 (non-dimensional unit). The dynamics range refers to the highest and lowest signal my sampling instrument can discern. They mean totally different things although naturally if a piece of instrument has less instrumental noise, thus a higher signal to noise rato after sampling the input, it will often have a wider dynamic range (but not always the case).

They are not completely different things but you have a point nitpicking. I simplified things for common man to understand. Dynamic range tells the maximum possible signal-to-noise ratio (SNR). 10 W signal and 2 W noise means a SNR of 10*log (10/2) dB = 7 dB.

[George]

No, WAV.

That explains the heavenly sound.

How about the Dorati sample?

[PerfectWagnerite]

They are not completely different things but you have a point nitpicking. I simplified things for common man to understand. Dynamic range tells the maximum possible signal-to-noise ratio (SNR). 10 W signal and 2 W noise means a SNR of 10*log (10/2) dB = 7 dB.

You don't get any argument from me regarding that.

[Mark]

That explains the heavenly sound.

How about the Dorati sample?

Yep, that's 192kbps MP3. I think. Might be 320kbps. You'd need to check - I didn't save a copy.

[George]

Yep, that's 192kbps MP3. I think. Might be 320kbps. You'd need to check - I didn't save a copy.

Ok, how about:

The Mackerras or the Haitink LvB Symphony samples?