Béla Bartók (1881-1945)

[bwv 1080]

Same. Main challenges in my case would be Webern & Poulenc (though neither is close; Bartók is very much more important for me as listener and music aligned person in general).

That said, I think people looking for progressivism in harmony, or a consistent folk music basis for a musical style, or anything else "modernist" in nature, is going to have a hard time finding it in Bartók. He is a 20th century Dvořák or Rimsky-Korsakov or etc.

Could not disagree more, Bartok is all of those things.  His music is far removed from 19th century nationalists for one thing, he actually took the time to study and collect actual folk music.  Bartok's use of modal music takes off from Stravinsky's Le Sacre, abstracting the modal structures and incorporating the very modernist notion of pitch class sets. 

[Mandryka]

Strangely I now find the two piano sonata unlistenable, I don't know why, it makes me tense and fidgety, I just don't like it. I never used to be like that.

I do, however, very much like the solo violin sonata (someone gave me Robert Mann's recording, and I play it often, before that I adored Josefowicz. ) And the quartets - at least 3-5 - are very good I think, I'm starting to appreciate 6 more I think too, I've really struggled with it before - at least I found myself  enjoying Tatrai Qt play it a few weeks ago.

As far as the solo piano music goes, I listen most often now to the last couple of books of mikrokosmos I think, and the etudes. I know someone who plays this music, so they're part of my world somehow . . .

[snyprrr]

From what I've heard of Bartók's piano music, I wouldn't call myself a fan either, but I do love Out of Doors and consider it one of his best works in all of his oeuvre actually. The problem with a lot of the piano music is it ranges from merely pleasant to "Okay, what's the point of this?" I'd say that Out of Doors feels like a thoroughly, well-conceived piece of music on it's own. It doesn't sound like an exercise like a good bit of Bartók's piano music sounds like (Debussy's Etudes comes to mind here, too, as sounding like piano exercises instead of a work that contains a narrative or is trying to convey something). I usually just stick with Bartók's chamber, orchestral, and choral music, and that absolutely fabulous sole opera of his, Bluebeard's Castle. For piano music, I'm finding it rather difficult to hear anything that tops Ravel and Janáček for me.

I absolutely agree with you on 'Out of Doors', it is the only work here that is exactly as you say, REAL MUSIC!- as in, non-piano music in inspiration, so to speak...

I ws going to bring it up in my Rant (if I didn't), but I think I wanted to start the conversation before I brought it up. I guess what prompted me was, having OoD already (Ranki), I went a searchin for more masterpieces, which I kneeew I would find,... but, I found what I found, and we know what it is (7 CDs worth!!!).

Tcherpinen(?) has EIGHT CDs of Piano Music...!!!!!!!!!!



Anyhow MI- I was tickled that you picked up on my omission!

Strangely I now find the two piano sonata unlistenable, I don't know why, it makes me tense and fidgety, I just don't like it. I never used to be like that.

I do, however, very much like the solo violin sonata (someone gave me Robert Mann's recording, and I play it often, before that I adored Josefowicz. ) And the quartets - at least 3-5 - are very good I think, I'm starting to appreciate 6 more I think too, I've really struggled with it before - at least I found myself  enjoying Tatrai Qt play it a few weeks ago.

As far as the solo piano music goes, I listen most often now to the last couple of books of mikrokosmos I think, and the etudes. I know someone who plays this music, so they're part of my world somehow . . .

I would like to get to the bottom of the Mikrokosmos. I'm sure I'll like it well enough.


YEA, JUST SO NO ONE MISCONSTRUES- I LIKE BARTOK JUST FINE, but, like 'Freebird', I no longer feel the need to hear the Concerto for Orchesta, or most of the pieces that initially drew me to him. STRING QUARTET NO.3 is still THE MASTERPIECE for me.


solo violin sonata- how is the Mann "better"? In the GoodMusicGuide, they reeeally liked the Mann, saying he clarifies structure AND does the other thingy, whilst most either do one or the other... I have LeilaJ...

But yea, the Piano Sonata have me the same heebijeebies...

Bartok interpreters and I still heard the same sounds. With Stravinsky Piano Music, I hated it when Serkin played it, but loved it when Ranki played it...??...

[snyprrr]

I didn't want to give an impression that I disliked Bartok's music,... other than the Solo Piano Music, so to speak. Here's my 10, order apprx.


STRING QUARTET NO.3

MIRACULOUS MANDARIN

2 IMAGES

SOLO VIOLIN SONATA

OUT OF DOORS

SONATA FOR 2PIANOS & PERCUSSION

PIANO CONCERTO NO.2

PIANO CONCERTO NO.1

CONCERTO FOR ORCHESTRA

STRING QUARTETS 4-5 (tie)

[Mandryka]

I think that putting the 3rd quartet at the top shows impeccable judgement.

[Mandryka]

Tatrai is really formidable in the 3rd quartet: unsmiling, brutal, harsh, without an iota of tenderness or consolation. And they play it with complete commitment, they are incandescent.  If this music is a vision of the meaning of life (and what else could it possibly be? A divertimento?)  what is it that Tatrai is trying to telling us here about the human condition?  It doesn't bear thinking about - I'm going to get drunk now.

I've listened to some others recently too:

Signum, Alexander - like, very dramatic
New Music Quartet - my old friend, love it more than any other
Heath - they could be trying to be abstract, rather than play it emotionally. What they do could be worth exploring, I'm not sure.
Chiara, Ebene - didn't register anything interesting going on

[Karl Henning]

Wait! I heard an iota of tenderness!

[Mandryka]

Wait! I heard an iota of tenderness!

You're quick!

[Moonfish]

Love this! Any other versions to recommend?

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle            Fischer-Dieskau/Varady/Sawallisch/Bayerisches Staatsorchester   

Magnificent! An eery opera! I think I will disappear into some surreal realm tonight when I fall asleep. Great music making. Varady and Fischer-Dieskau are perfect in this work.

[Ken B]

Love this! Any other versions to recommend?

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle            Fischer-Dieskau/Varady/Sawallisch/Bayerisches Staatsorchester   

Magnificent! A eery opera! I think I will disappear into some surreal realm tonight when I fall asleep. Great music making. Varady and Fischer-Dieskau are perfect in this work.

The Solti is great. I am usually not such a fan of his.

[TheGSMoeller]

Thanks, Gents for the B.B. Castle recs.
I've been having a bit of a Bartok resurgence lately, and picked up a few new(to me) Bartok recordings. The Dorati/LSO performance of Concerto for Orchestra is one of the best I've heard, I love Dorati's tempi and interpretive choices. I have a few more Bartok discs in my que that I'm deciding on, another Wooden Prince perhaps, maybe a new Violin Concertos disc.
I'll leave more thoughts on Bartok soon...

New Bartok albums...

[Mirror Image]

Love this! Any other versions to recommend?

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle            Fischer-Dieskau/Varady/Sawallisch/Bayerisches Staatsorchester   

Magnificent! An eery opera! I think I will disappear into some surreal realm tonight when I fall asleep. Great music making. Varady and Fischer-Dieskau are perfect in this work.

If I had to pick just one recording that I feel encapsulates everything I love about Bluebeard's Castle it would be this superb recording:



It can be bought in various incarnations, but the issue I listed above is the one I prefer as the remastering done is quite warm sounding. The soloists Siegmund Nimsgern and Tatiana Troyanos are two of the best vocalists I've heard in this opera. Of course, the duo of Walter Berry and Christa Ludwig is also top-notch, but I find Troyanos to be one of the most affecting roles I've ever heard in Judith. Nimsgern's Bluebeard also has a rich timbre and resonance that goes hand-in-hand with how I personally would like to hear this role sung. Boulez's accompaniment is, to be quite blunt, scorching. He gets the BBC Symphony Orchestra to perform with venom in their blood and razor-sharp fangs. Not to be missed! One of my all-time favorite recordings of anything.

[TheGSMoeller]

If I had to pick just one recording that I feel encapsulates everything I love about Bluebeard's Castle it would be this superb recording:



It can be bought in various incarnations, but the issue I listed above is the one I prefer as the remastering done is quite warm sounding. The soloists Siegmund Nimsgern and Tatiana Troyanos are two of the best vocalists I've heard in this opera. Of course, the duo of Walter Berry and Christa Ludwig is also top-notch, but I find Troyanos to be one of the most affecting roles I've ever heard in Judith. Nimsgern's Bluebeard also has a rich timbre and resonance that goes hand-in-hand with how I personally would like to hear this role sung. Boulez's accompaniment is, to be quite blunt, smoking hot. He gets the BBC Symphony Orchestra to perform with venom in their blood and razor-sharp fangs. Not to be missed! One of my all-time favorite recordings of anything.

Coincidentally that's one of the Bartok discs I have in my wish list awaiting the buy-now-click. I listened to it on Apple Music and was heavily impressed. Thanks for the extra vote, John!

[Mirror Image]

Thanks, Gents for the B.B. Castle recs.
I've been having a bit of a Bartok resurgence lately, and picked up a few new(to me) Bartok recordings. The Dorati/LSO performance of Concerto for Orchestra is one of the best I've heard, I love Dorati's tempi and interpretive choices. I have a few more Bartok discs in my que that I'm deciding on, another Wooden Prince perhaps, maybe a new Violin Concertos disc.
I'll leave more thoughts on Bartok soon...

New Bartok albums...

All great recordings, Greg! Love them all dearly, although it's been quite some time since I've listened to Dorati's traversal of the composer. I should definitely revisit those recordings. Fischer and Boulez are, of course, not to be missed in Bartók. Anyone who loves this composer will have one, if not all, of these recordings in their collection.

[Mirror Image]

Coincidentally that's one of the Bartok discs I have in my wish list awaiting the buy-now-click. I listened to it on Apple Music and was heavily impressed. Thanks for the extra vote, John!

Excellent to hear, Greg. Glad you enjoyed this performance as much as I have. There's something truly magical about Boulez's way with Bartók. The only recording from Boulez I heard that I didn't think much of was his second go-around with Bluebeard's Castle on Deutsche Grammophon where I thought he was rather lethargic and didn't really get to the heart of the work like he did with his first recording.

[Moonfish]

If I had to pick just one recording that I feel encapsulates everything I love about Bluebeard's Castle it would be this superb recording:



It can be bought in various incarnations, but the issue I listed above is the one I prefer as the remastering done is quite warm sounding. The soloists Siegmund Nimsgern and Tatiana Troyanos are two of the best vocalists I've heard in this opera. Of course, the duo of Walter Berry and Christa Ludwig is also top-notch, but I find Troyanos to be one of the most affecting roles I've ever heard in Judith. Nimsgern's Bluebeard also has a rich timbre and resonance that goes hand-in-hand with how I personally would like to hear this role sung. Boulez's accompaniment is, to be quite blunt, scorching. He gets the BBC Symphony Orchestra to perform with venom in their blood and razor-sharp fangs. Not to be missed! One of my all-time favorite recordings of anything.

Nice. That specific recording can be found in the Boulez complete Columbia collection. 

[bhodges]

Love this! Any other versions to recommend?

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle            Fischer-Dieskau/Varady/Sawallisch/Bayerisches Staatsorchester   

Magnificent! An eery opera! I think I will disappear into some surreal realm tonight when I fall asleep. Great music making. Varady and Fischer-Dieskau are perfect in this work.

I like this version a lot (even though my copy is a DG reissue, with a much more boring cover than the one here). The two singers are superb, and I don't recall ever hearing Sawallisch conduct Bartók, which he does quite well.

As far as others, another vote for the first Boulez recording with Troyanos (my introduction to the piece). As John says, it smokes. I also like Boulez's later version, mostly for the glorious singing of Jessye Norman.

I also like Haitink's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic, Anne Sofie von Otter and John Tomlinson (though the soundscape is a little distant).

--Bruce

[Mirror Image]

Nice. That specific recording can be found in the Boulez complete Columbia collection.

Yep, it can also be found in at least two Bartók sets from Boulez on Sony. One that's OOP and another one that has been more recently issued at budget price:

[asin]B00GZHRFDC[/asin]

[Baron Scarpia]

If my memory is to the trusted the recording of Two Portraits on this disc is my absolute favorite. I like his Concerto for Orchestra on Decca a little better.

One disc that really surprised me was the Dutoit recording of Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta.

[asin]B00000E3QN[/asin]

Not a conductor you usually associate with Bartok, but this performance is my standard for that piece, which is probably my favorite work by Bartok (with the possible exception fo the string quartets).

[Moonfish]

I sense a love for Bartók here at GMG...