Goethe or Schiller?

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Among the most admired German writers and poets, these two are often compared. They even had active correspondence with each other. Which is greater? You may additionally say which one you personally like/dislike more even if you think the other one is greater.

Not a difficult question for me. I choose you, Goethe!

[Biffo]

I had to put Goethe by default as I have never read any Schiller though I have heard at least one opera (Donizetti/Maria Stuarda) based on one of his plays. I have read (in English) Faust Parts I & II and Italian Journey .

I had a friend who studied German at university and Goethe v Schiller seemed to exercise him greatly though he preferred Kleist to both. He didn't seem to like Goethe very much as a person but carried on reading his works even after finishing his studies and taking a completely unrelated job.

When Goethe met Beethoven in Vienna (?) they allegedly went for a stroll but were continually interrupted by people stopping them and bowing. Eventually Goethe apologised to Beethoven who replied 'Think nothing of it Your Excellency, perhaps the compliments were meant for me'

Afterthought: I think Verdi's Don Carlos is based on Schiller (and probably other operas)

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Afterthought: I think Verdi's Don Carlos is based on Schiller

It is.

[Jo498]

Schiller is probably the one after Shakespeare with most operas based on his plays:

Die Räuber (The brigands, although they are more like outlaws inspired by revolutionary ideas) - I Masnadieri
Kabale und Liebe - Luisa Miller
Don Carlos
Maria Stuart - Maria Stuarda
Wilhelm Tell - Guillaume Tell

There is also a play based on Joan of Arc (Die Jungfrau von Orleans) but I am not sure if respective operas are not simply based on the common historical episode.

Schillers dramatic opus magnum is probably the "Wallenstein" in two parts (Schiller's day job was professor of history) but there is no famous opera based on that one. He also left an unfinished "Demetrius" (on a historic episode overlapping with Boris Godunov, I think).

The famous Goethe - Beethoven encounter with the latter being rude was actually in Teplitz (today Teplice in the Czech Republic).

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/focus/a-meeting-of-genius-beethoven-and-goethe-july-1812

[Jo498]

Goethe seems more timeless. He lived almost twice as long and his range is much broader. Schiller excelled on the stage where he is usually more dramatic and more convincing than Goethe. Although nowadays his pathos seems over the top for many readers/listeners.

Faust is great in all kinds of ways but I am not at all sure that it is a successful stage play. Both left huge amounts of poetry, but again Goethe has a much broader range, including several large epics in verse, love poetry, songs etc. whereas Schiller is mostly focussed on long dramatic ballads and philosophical or witty epigrams. Although Schubert and also Loewe set several of these long ballads, Goethe's poetry seems better suited for music, even among the dramatic ballads, "Erlkönig" is more successful (as a song) than the Schiller.
An interesting comparison of both in their "Greek mode" would be between two vocal works by Brahms: Gesang der Parzen (Goethe) and Nänie (Schiller).

There is only a little prose by Schiller while Goethe wrote a few longish novels, although the only one that seems really popular is "Werther" (this also got an opera based on it).

[Biffo]

Schiller is probably the one after Shakespeare with most operas based on his plays:

Die Räuber (The brigands, although they are more like outlaws inspired by revolutionary ideas) - I Masnadieri
Kabale und Liebe - Luisa Miller
Don Carlos
Maria Stuart - Maria Stuarda
Wilhelm Tell - Guillaume Tell

There is also a play based on Joan of Arc (Die Jungfrau von Orleans) but I am not sure if respective operas are not simply based on the common historical episode.

Schillers dramatic opus magnum is probably the "Wallenstein" in two parts (Schiller's day job was professor of history) but there is no famous opera based on that one. He also left an unfinished "Demetrius" (on a historic episode overlapping with Boris Godunov, I think).

The famous Goethe - Beethoven encounter with the latter being rude was actually in Teplitz (today Teplice in the Czech Republic).

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/focus/a-meeting-of-genius-beethoven-and-goethe-july-1812

Thanks for the further information.

Tchaikovsky's The Maid of Orleans is based on Schiller, never heard it though. Verdi's Giovanna d'Arco, which I have heard,  is a fairly absurd farrago based on neither Schiller nor history.

[JBS]

Goethe. Wrote in more diverse genres, and what Mahler said about the symphony: it must contain the world: can describe Faust.
Bonus. Although his theory was completely offbase, he did try to make a major contribution to science.

[vandermolen]

Coincidentally I recently read 'The Ghost-Seer' by Schiller, mainly because it was translated by a friend. I found it interesting but rather odd.

I rather admire Goethe but mainly from various quotations and should read more.

I especially like the psychological honesty of his admission that he couldn't think of any crime that he wasn't capable of committing himself.

[pjme]

A couple of years ago I read "Goethe en Schiller - the story of a friendship" by Rüdiger Safranski (München 2009 / Dutch translation 2010).
For me it was an excellent introduction into the world of these two giants.

Love, hate, jealousy, conflict and tension ... mutual admiration ... Safranski brings a wonderful and exiting moment in Germany's history to life. Will read again....

And I choose Goethe.

P.

[Christo]

A couple of years ago I read "Goethe en Schiller - the story of a friendship" by Rüdiger Safranski (München 2009 / Dutch translation 2010).
For me it was an excellent introduction into the world of these two giants.

Love, hate, jealousy, conflict and tension ... mutual admiration ... Safranski brings a wonderful and exiting moment in Germany's history to life. Will read again....

And I choose Goethe.

P.

Great to learn. Last year, I read Safranski's Goethe biography, equally wonderful and totally convincing. At the same time giving me second thoughts about the poet I had read most of as a teenager - Faust I & II the very first books in German I ever read; I was 15, please teacher :-) - and thought I admired also because my favourite poet, W.H. Auden, returned to Goethe later in his life. For me, the Safranski biography shows a great poet, but not an admirable character. Of course, his bust, acquired at the Goethe Haus in Weimar, remains at the piano. 

[Mandryka]

There's a bit of Schiller which I love, from the Wallenstein trilogy

Notwendigkeit ist da, der Zweifel flieht . . .
Nacht musst es sein wo Friedlands Sterne strahlen.

Doubt flees in the face of necessity . . .
It must be night for Friedland's stars to shine.

I've seen Don Carlos, the play. It is long. I've also seen both parts of Faust performed on the stage. I thought there was a part of Part II, with Baucis and Philemon, which was  very  moving and humane.