Cecilia Bartoli

Maciek · April 27, 2007, 05:56:10 AM

Quote from: Hector on April 27, 2007, 05:53:58 AM
An Italian with a great voice, intelligence and a pneumatic figure. What else do you want from the woman? Sex?

zamyrabyrd · April 27, 2007, 10:19:44 AM

Quote from: knight on April 18, 2007, 04:49:42 AM
Sorry, I have just not been able to 'get' her. I have a few of her discs, Gluck, Vivaldi, Rossini. My ear soon tires of the rat-a-tat colouratura and I sometimes feel the vibrancy has really become an inherent vibrato. She did a disc of French songs....I liked that. But usually I feel I am enduring her as I know it must be good, but then I come to my original opinion that basically I don't get along with her voice.

She was on a TV relay last week of Don Giovanni. I know Anna can be sung as an angry harridan, but I found it tiring on the ear and eye, the spitfire delivery and the whole body shake needed to accomplish it.
Mike

Same here. Maybe it has to do with not exactly maturing into roles but being thrust into them as a adolescent prodigy.

ZB

Tsaraslondon · April 28, 2007, 02:01:03 AM

I'm with Knight and Zamyrabird. I have always found the vibrato and intrusive aspirates hard to take. A friend of mine bought me the Opera Probita CD, and I confess I warmed a little more to her in this repertoire. But I still have my doubts. Some of the slower arias are meltingly lovely and sung with great feeling, but when she speeds up, I really can't stand all those aspirates. It all sounds just too unmusical to my ears. You only have to listen to Sutherland and Horne to hear how even large voices (and Bartoli's voice is pretty small) can negotiate florid music without having to resort to this technique. Sadly many modern singers seem to be following in Bartoli's footsteps, rather than those of her illustrious predecessors.
I also have the complete recording of Rinaldo, which I bought for David Daniels' traversal of the title role. Now there's a singer with a wonderful legato, who never resorts to the intrusive aitch.

Maciek · April 28, 2007, 02:15:09 AM

Well, I love both Sutherland and Horne (Horne especially) and still don't have a problem with Bartoli... Apparently, something's wrong with me.

jochanaan · May 02, 2007, 05:15:33 PM

Quote from: Don on April 17, 2007, 02:42:04 PM
...Also, her chunky physical qualities aren't any help.

Ha! If this picture in Wikipedia is accurate, she's as svelte as they come.

Maciek · May 03, 2007, 03:55:14 PM

Actually, those photographers really know their jobs! But when you watch her on DVD it becomes obvious she's not as svelte as that. Rather stocky, I'd say. 0:)

Still, chunky or not, I think she always looks gorgeous! It's because of that radiant face and lovely eyes.

JoshLilly · May 03, 2007, 03:58:11 PM

I think he's referring to a number of years (including the year 1998, I saw her doing Rossini's La Cenerentola and she was very heavy) where she got overweight. I think maybe people remark on her weight over that of others because she was a dancer, and it was kind of jarring. I never thought it was any of my business. At least in the last year or so, she's gotten back to near where she was before.

Hector · May 04, 2007, 06:35:25 AM

Quote from: MrOsa on April 28, 2007, 02:15:09 AM
Well, I love both Sutherland and Horne (Horne especially) and still don't have a problem with Bartoli... Apparently, something's wrong with me.

And me but I'm British, what's your excuse?

Tsaraslondon · May 04, 2007, 08:54:20 AM

Quote from: MrOsa on April 28, 2007, 02:15:09 AM
Well, I love both Sutherland and Horne (Horne especially) and still don't have a problem with Bartoli... Apparently, something's wrong with me.

I didn't suggest that it was impossible (or wrong) to like all three singers. I was just using them as an illustration of how it is possible to sing the most difficult coloratura withouty resorting to aspirates. I personally find them anti-musical and ugly, but that is my opinion. Evidently they bother others far less than they do me, otherwise Bartoli would not be the popular and successful artist she is today. I certainly applaud her unhackneyed choice of repertoire.

zamyrabyrd · May 04, 2007, 10:35:03 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 04, 2007, 08:54:20 AM
I didn't suggest that it was impossible (or wrong) to like all three singers. I was just using them as an illustration of how it is possible to sing the most difficult coloratura withouty resorting to aspirates. I personally find them anti-musical and ugly, but that is my opinion. Evidently they bother others far less than they do me, otherwise Bartoli would not be the popular and successful artist she is today. I certainly applaud her unhackneyed choice of repertoire.

And it's doubly odd because native Italians usually drop the aitches, at least the ones around me do...

Zb

Maciek · May 04, 2007, 03:22:11 PM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 04, 2007, 08:54:20 AM
I certainly applaud her unhackneyed choice of repertoire.

Thanks for mentioning that - I kept wanting to and forgetting. And I think it's something that shouldn't be forgotten. How many other opera "stars" record so much previously unrecorded repertoire? And she's doing it with major labels too, which is probably doubly difficult!

I don't want to go into the aspirates discussion - I'm a total ignoramus in that field (is it actually easier to sing that way??). I didn't mean to imply that you implied that... oh, let's just forget the matter. All I really wanted to say is that even though Bartoli's voice indeed is smaller, I don't find her inferior to Horne or Sutherland, even though I admire both those singers. IMO, they are all great, and each one of them is different.

Cheers,
Maciek

knight66 · May 04, 2007, 10:55:50 PM

"is it actually easier to sing that way??"

Yes, it is a sort of short-hand way of producing fast movement between one note and another. The musical line ought not to be broken in this way and for bel canto especially, it ought to be in a great arc of sound. Other singers manage the florid music without the interpolations, they use the diaphragm more efficiently. This rattling sound is why she needs basically to shake as she asperates so very quickly. I would have thought it would make her body and neck tense....but it seems to work to her satisfaction and that of many listeners. She is far from the only singer with this habit, nor the first to display it.

I do agree that she has had an imaginative approach to her repertoire, also scholarly. She has been asked to sing Carmen many times, she has been putting it off, perhaps will never sing it.

Mike

Maciek · May 07, 2007, 02:15:45 AM

Thanks for the info, Mike!

I think she could make an interesting Carmen - and the French arias disc was the only one you liked, wasn't it? I must confess I don't know it yet - but will definitely get that one one day too!

Sarastro · December 22, 2007, 12:08:29 PM

Only baroque.

She's stupendous there...and as for Rossini...anyway, her new CD "Maria" dedicated to Malibran, containing Amina and Norma, just killed me. Here is her Casta diva.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gU6bVIYQnNg
Of course it's just my opinion, I don't think her voice fits that. I prefer powerful and maybe less coloratura Norma's, and Callas of course, is standing beyond them all. separately.

gmstudio · December 23, 2007, 07:21:17 PM

Que · December 23, 2007, 11:05:56 PM

In some recordings the "quiver" in her voice bothers me, in others not. It reminds me a bit of the "wobble" in Conchita Supervia's voice (which I do not mind btw). It is said that when Supervia was heard live, the effect was not that prominent, and I've heard the same comment about Bartoli. Anyone heard Bartoli live?

My favourites discs are her early "Arie Antiche" disc and the Gluck arias, oh - and the "Italian" songs!

Q

Mozart · December 23, 2007, 11:29:23 PM

I became a fan when I heard her sing Agitata Da Due Venti and I generally love her fiery interpretations of arias. This one for example...
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/Gn89JoTfBak

The last time she says Furie! Ahhh my hearts beats a little faster. The intensity! The tempo!

The new erato · December 24, 2007, 12:46:33 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 28, 2007, 02:01:03 AM
I'm with Knight and Zamyrabird. I have always found the vibrato and intrusive aspirates hard to take. +

I'm in the same camp. I admire her repertoire choices, but her style of singing quickly wears me out, and my few Bartoli albums are so hard to listen too that I seldom manage to listen to more than parts of them.

Tsaraslondon · December 25, 2007, 09:42:52 PM

Quote from: Sarastro on December 22, 2007, 12:08:29 PM
Only baroque. She's stupendous there...and as for Rossini...anyway, her new CD "Maria" dedicated to Malibran, containing Amina and Norma, just killed me. Here is her Casta diva.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gU6bVIYQnNg
Of course it's just my opinion, I don't think her voice fits that. I prefer powerful and maybe less coloratura Norma's, and Callas of course, is standing beyond them all. separately.

I've heard some of this disc dedicated to Maria Malibran, and I'm afraid I don't like it at all. Her casta diva does not gleam like moonlight on the water,as it does with Ponselle, Callas, Sutherland and Caballe. It is altogether too insistent. The same could be said about her Amina. Where is the shyness, the sweetness and poetry of Amina? Sorry, but, if contemporary descriptions are anything to go by, I can't believe Malibran sang them like this.

Que · December 26, 2007, 02:05:15 AM

Quote from: Tsaraslondon on December 25, 2007, 09:42:52 PM
I've heard some of this disc dedicated to Maria Malibran, and I'm afraid I don't like it at all. Her casta diva does not gleam like moonlight on the water,as it does with Ponselle, Callas, Sutherland and Caballe. It is altogether too insistent. The same could be said about her Amina. Where is the shyness, the sweetness and poetry of Amina? Sorry, but, if contemporary descriptions are anything to go by, I can't believe Malibran sang them like this.

Tsaras, it's always good to hear a dissenting opinion of someone who knows his stuff. Thanks for that word of caution amongst the generally raving reviews I have seen till now. I haven't heard the recording myself, but it sounds plausible. Bartoli can have the tendency to over-charge, with octane levels going up-up-up.

Q

Cecilia Bartoli

Hector

Mozart