Computer buffs, especially MAC users, I need your help please!

[George]

I have a Powerbook G4 and need to find out how I can import a CD (or a single track) "AS IT IS" without converting it to MP3 or another filetype so that I can tell exactly what filetype (and size) it is.

If I use itunes, I have to convert it to MP3, AAC, WAV, etc.

I also have Toast and Real Player and I know that when you play a track on Real Player it shows the bitrate, but I can't figure out how to import the file without converting it. 

[Mark]

George, doesn't iTunes do AIFF - which is basically 'as it is' (essentially the same as PCM WAV)?

[George]

George, doesn't iTunes do AIFF - which is basically 'as it is' (essentially the same as PCM WAV)?

Then I could just drag the file to my Real Player and get the info there?

Lemme try...thanks buddy!!

[George]

George, doesn't iTunes do AIFF - which is basically 'as it is' (essentially the same as PCM WAV)?

One question: how do I analyze the info? With MP3, at least I can have a reference point. 

[MN Dave]

What are you doing, George?

[George]

What are you doing, George?

I have a CD with music on it and I don't know if its MP3, CD quality, etc and I want to analyze it with my computer to find out.

[George]

George, doesn't iTunes do AIFF - which is basically 'as it is' (essentially the same as PCM WAV)?

Ok, I imported as AIFF and put it on my Real Player. Now it's reading 1412 kbps.

Does this mean it's CD quality?

One other question: when I import MP3's into itunes when the importing setting is WAV, it increases the file size and appears to be WAV quality, when it is not. Is AIFF different?

[Mark]

George, it's CD quality. It's uncompressed. I bet the filesizes are huge compared to MP3 - rip a track to MP3 for yourself and compare.

[George]

George, it's CD quality. It's uncompressed. I bet the filesizes are huge compared to MP3 - rip a track to MP3 for yourself and compare.

Just to see, I imported the very same track as MP3 and then converted it back to AIFF. SAME SIZE!!

I think that itunes converts everything into a format and when WAV or AIFF is chosen, itunes automatically increases the size of the file so that it looks like a WAV, AIFF, when it isn't. Otherwise, the converted MP3 I mention above would still be a small size, right?

[Mark]

George, you misunderstand how the conversion process works. Making a WAV (or AIFF) from an MP3 file will ALWAYS bring the filesize back to near enough the original uncompressed size.

[71 dB]

Just to see, I imported the very same track as MP3 and then converted it back to AIFF. SAME SIZE!!

I think that itunes converts everything into a format and when WAV or AIFF is chosen, itunes automatically increases the size of the file so that it looks like a WAV, AIFF, when it isn't. Otherwise, the converted MP3 I mention above would still be a small size, right?

AIFF and WAV are always 1411200 bps even if the sound quality has been "destroyed" by convering to mp3 and back.

iTunes converts to the format selected. You select it this way:

Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Importing/Import Using

Why don't you simply check the track info?

[orbital]

One question: how do I analyze the info? With MP3, at least I can have a reference point. 

The only way I know to analyze this info would be to open the two files (the AIFF and the original CD track if you had it) on to a sound editor and compare the graphical representations of the frequencies.

[George]

George, you misunderstand how the conversion process works. Making a WAV (or AIFF) from an MP3 file will ALWAYS bring the filesize back to near enough the original uncompressed size.

So when I import a song as an MP3 (originally WAV) the computer stores the unused information? If this is true, then I don't need to store my music as WAV right? I can simply convert it back when I want to burn a CD.

However, that may be with files that were originally WAV, but what I still don't understand is why does an (original) MP3 grow in size to look like a WAV when you convert it to WAV? Is the extra space just blank? 

[Mark]

So when I import a song as an MP3 (originally WAV) the computer stores the unused information? If this is true, then I don't need to store my music as WAV right? I can simply convert it back when I want to burn a CD.

However, that may be with files that were originally WAV, but what I still don't understand is why does an (original) MP3 grow in size to look like a WAV when you convert it to WAV? Is the extra space just blank? 

When you rip and encode to MP3, you lose bits of digital data pro rata to the amount of compression you've selected - more is lost with 128kbps than with 320kbps, but data is ALWAYS lost (hence why MP3 is termed a 'lossy' format). When you 'convert back' to WAV (or AIFF), that's not strictly what's happening: the program you're using is simply replicating the original as best it can. It CAN'T replace the data that was lost when the MP3 was made. Test it for yourself by making a very low-bitrate MP3 (try 64kbps), listen to how shit it sounds, then convert it to WAV. The filesize will look like nothing's been lost from the original, but the new WAV's sound will be as shit as that of the low-bitrate MP3 from which you made it.

[George]

AIFF and WAV are always 1411200 bps even if the sound quality has been "destroyed" by convering to mp3 and back.

That makes sense.

iTunes converts to the format selected. You select it this way:

Right, but how to import without converting?

Why don't you simply check the track info?

It only shows the filesize and that's after converting. 

Unless you know something I don't know.

[George]

When you rip and encode to MP3, you lose bits of digital data pro rata to the amount of compression you've selected - more is lost with 128kbps than with 320kbps, but data is ALWAYS lost (hence why MP3 is termed a 'lossy' format). When you 'convert back' to WAV (or AIFF), that's not strictly what's happening: the program you're using is simply replicating the original as best it can. It CAN'T replace the data that was lost when the MP3 was made. Test it for yourself by making a very low-bitrate MP3 (try 64kbps), listen to how shit it sounds, then convert it to WAV. The filesize will look like nothing's been lost from the original, but the new WAV's sound will be as shit as that of the low-bitrate MP3 from which you made it.

OK, thanks for the explanation. 

This means that I am back at square one, for if I import any type of file and convert it to WAV, AIFF it will appear to be as such when I play it on my Real Player. 

Of course I could use my ears to compare, but if I only have one version, there's nothing to compare to. 

[orbital]

When you are converting from mp3 to WAV (or AIFF) what is happening is the full frequency information is rewritten. But since mp3 deleted a lot of the frequencies, what you are getting back is a lot of frequency information with zero values ending up with a big file size with a lot of empty information  

Of course I could use my ears to compare, but if I only have one version, there's nothing to compare to. 

Once the file is written on CD as an audio track all bitrate and related information is gone, so yes, you cannot do a comparison without the original CD track unfortunately

[71 dB]

Right, but how to import without converting?

It only shows the filesize and that's after converting. 

Unless you know something I don't know.

I mean put the CD in your Mac, close iTunes (it probably runs automatically), open the CD icon and see what kind of files are there.

[George]

When you are converting from mp3 to WAV (or AIFF) what is happening is the full frequency information is rewritten. But since mp3 deleted a lot of the frequencies, what you are getting back is a lot of frequency information with zero values ending up with a big file size with a lot of empty information 

Thanks

Once the file is written on CD as an audio track all bitrate and related information is gone, so yes, you cannot do a comparison without the original CD track unfortunately

Well I think I have a WAV or AIFF copy of the disc, but I am unsure. 

[George]

I mean put the CD in your Mac, close iTunes (it probably runs automatically), open the CD icon and see what kind of files are there.

Actually, closing itunes doesn't work. It opens automatically anyway. However,  I think if I open Toast it will override itunes. Let's see...