The Best

[Josquin des Prez]

There is no set blueprint that music must fulfil, or comply to, to qualify as perfect. It's completely subjective.

Proof?

[Great Gable]

Proof?

Certainly don't need to furnish any. Look at the question set by the OP. If ever a request for opinions was set up more subjectively I have yet to see it.

[quintett op.57]

Given the OP ...

... my reply was merely focusing on the idea of perfection, which I don't believe exists anywhere here on earth.

perfection does exist. I agree with Great Gable.
Are you capable of giving a perfect answer to this question : 2+2=?

It all depends on what you're looking for. Do you feel uncompletely satisfied by any piece of music you've listened? I don't. Many are often perfect for me!

[greg]

perfection does exist. I agree with Great Gable.
Are you capable of giving a perfect answer to this question : 2+2=?

welllllllll the only answer would be 4

[BachQ]

... my reply was merely focusing on the idea of perfection, which I don't believe exists anywhere here on earth.

If something cannot possibly be improved upon, then it's "perfect"

Examples of "perfect" music include:

1. 1st movement of Brahms 4th Symphony
2. Finale to Mozart's Jupiter Symphony
3. Bach's Goldberg Variations
4. First movement to LvB's 5th Symphony

[pjme]

What is the single most perfect piece of music ever written? The one that makes all the others pale, even if only slightly, in comparison?

...it's on this CD! Buy it! BUY IT! Believe in it !!!!!!

[Bonehelm]

If something cannot possibly be improved upon, then it's "perfect"

Examples of "perfect" music include:

1. 1st movement of Brahms 4th Symphony
2. Finale to Mozart's Jupiter Symphony
3. Bach's Goldberg Variations
4. First movement to LvB's 5th Symphony

I concur deeply with the first 3, but the last?  There are practically NO vibrational fields in existence in that piece! You blasphemous, sinned soul! The Multi-dimensionality and complexity Society of Sir Edward William hereby announces that your argument to be faulty and invalid!

[Bogey]

If something cannot possibly be improved upon, then it's "perfect"

Examples of "perfect" music include:


4. First Third and Fourth movement to LvB's 5th Symphony

[Josquin des Prez]

Do you feel uncompletely satisfied by any piece of music you've listened?

I rarely feel completely satisfied when i hear a piece of music. Few composers can perform such miracle.

[Ten thumbs]

I don't think it's possible to speak about best without discussing, lengthily, what is meant by best, and since it is unlikely that we aill agree, we will be stuck.  That said, for me it will be op 131, closely followed by 127 and 130. Why - I don't know, but no other works affect me as strongly.

That sounds reasonable. It is a good thing that each has a different 'best' and even that will vary over time.
For now Beethoven Op127 and Mel Bonis Op127 make a good pair, especially as Beethoven died in 1827 and Mel composed her work in 1927.

[(poco) Sforzando]

That sounds reasonable. It is a good thing that each has a different 'best' and even that will vary over time.
For now Beethoven Op127 and Mel Bonis Op127 make a good pair, especially as Beethoven died in 1827 and Mel composed her work in 1927.

What about Mel's work is so compelling for you? and where is there a recording?

[Ten thumbs]

What about Mel's work is so compelling for you? and where is there a recording?

Sadly my number scheme has broken down, as Mel Bonis's D major piano quartet is Op124, not Op127. Silly me. Anyway, this is one of those works that seems to sum up the human condition. It reflects the composer's leanings towards spirituality. The writing is highly complex and varied and I cannot find a weak moment throughout its four movements. It announces a grand scheme from the opening bars and remains gripping throughout.
It is available from www.houseoflyrics.com (see amendment s/b voiceoflyrics.com - there's a gremlin somewhere) together with the Bb quartet Op69, which is the work so admired by Saint-Saens.

[bwv 1080]

The underlying assumptions touch upon what I posted here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4945.0.html

in regards to the idea, with its roots in Platonic idealism, that there is a perfect music to which composers aspire, with the usual list of dead Germans named as contenders for having achieved it.  It presupposes a static set of criteria by which to judge, when in fact the criteria is somewhat arbitrary.

[Josquin des Prez]

It presupposes a static set of criteria by which to judge, when in fact the criteria is somewhat arbitrary.

I see no evidence for this assertion whatsoever.

[bwv 1080]

I see no evidence for this assertion whatsoever.

What evidence could their possibly be either pro or con?  If you are looking for empirical proof then you have already conceded that the idea of "best" is an arbitrary construct.  The whole notion of "best" is built around universalizing one's own subjective impressions

[Josquin des Prez]

What evidence could their possibly be either pro or con?  If you are looking for empirical proof then you have already conceded that the idea of "best" is an arbitrary construct.  The whole notion of "best" is built around universalizing one's own subjective impressions

If no evidence can be evicted for either side then might you explain the tone of absolute authority in those continuous assertions of universal subjectivity?

[Renfield]

Mahler 9



(where's Renfield?  ...)

Right here.

(In fact having belatedly read your post just as I was about to duplicate it, minus the Renfield part. )

And happy to confirm the Mahler's 9th's being properly upholded even while I'm away; "there is yet hope", Greg.


The philosophical(?) debate I am, typically, staying out of.

Besides, this is a frantic period: best to make a post about Mahler's 9th than universality, in this instance. Or so I feel.

[(poco) Sforzando]

It is available from www.houseoflyrics.com together with the Bb quartet Op69, which is the work so admired by Saint-Saens.

Can you be more specific? I can't locate the CD there.

[bwv 1080]

If no evidence can be evicted for either side then might you explain the tone of absolute authority in those continuous assertions of universal subjectivity?

There is no tone or claim of absolute authority or universal subjectivity.  It is a matter of presuppositions - these presuppositions have changed throughout the history of Western music.  That music might have extra-muscial connotations, for example, was widely held during the 19th century but was not significant either before or after that period.  Those who have written about music over the past few hundred years have substantial agreements, but also substantial differences and there is no exact agreement over what would constitute "the best".  That people have individual preferences and values is self evident, what is not is that there is some set of universal values - that is something, as a positive assertion, would place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that as a fact.

[BachQ]

There is no tone or claim of absolute authority or universal subjectivity.  It is a matter of presuppositions - these presuppositions have changed throughout the history of Western music.  That music might have extra-muscial connotations, for example, was widely held during the 19th century but was not significant either before or after that period.  Those who have written about music over the past few hundred years have substantial agreements, but also substantial differences and there is no exact agreement over what would constitute "the best".  That people have individual preferences and values is self evident, what is not is that there is some set of universal values - that is something, as a positive assertion, would place the burden of proof on anyone who claims that as a fact.

That's the best post so far .......... (objectively) .........