Sibelius Symphonies

[Greta]

I've been working my way through the Blomstedt set and finally finished. Still digesting though!

San Francisco sounds amazing throughout, concentrated and slightly cool, with an inner strength. Clear, round wind tones, lean silky strings, and satiny brass that somehow seem to back and grow from the sound rather than overpowering. Blomstedt is more distant in his readings, and sometimes more expansive, the very even sound and lingering in textures brings an nice, quiet introspectiveness (which sometimes requires more patience). I feel more melancholy rather than warmth from him.

I wasn't as into his 3rd and 7th (I really like Rattle for those), 2nd good, though there is so much competition, but the 1st and 6th are great, beautifully structured and energetic.

His 4th and 5th just amazed me. The thing with Blomstedt is he's so gradual, rarely does anything happen suddenly with him, he shoots for the overarching long line, which takes more patience for the listener but boy, does it pay off. The 1st mvmt. of his 5th is enormous, like looking at a majestic snow-covered mountain. The brass tone and vibrato gorgeous. Another to count among favorites for me.

The 4th is superb, and helped the piece really make sense for me. 3rd mvmt. is my favorite, the poignant cello and woodwind solos are extremely beautiful. The gradual build he creates there, leads to a massive final swell, again magnificent structure.

I mentioned Rattle, I have his 2, 3, 5, and 7 and they're uniformly ones I listen to often, with a lot of color and detail, are the others as good? 4 and 6 seem a little harder to bring off.

Also has anyone heard this early Rattle recording with Nielsen:

[uffeviking]

Why not give Sibelius's countrymen a chance?

I finished listening and comparing the seven symphonies conducted by Osmo Vänskä and Leif Segerstam. Not an easy comparison, but after three sessions I have chosen Segerstam the winner by a nose!

For some reason, Vänskä, who is one of my favorite conductors, gets a bit schleppend at times. Segerstam has more vigor and what sounds to me, enthusiasm.

[longears]

has anyone heard this early Rattle recording with Nielsen?

I have.  Heard it praised somewhere.  Bought a copy.  Didn't like it.  Can't recall anything by Rattle I liked.  M praises his Nightride & Sunrise and I greatly respect (though don't always share) M's taste, but Rattle's penchant for self-indulgent expression of his "sensitivity" generally strikes me as affected, bloated, and downright sappy.

I am glad that you enjoyed Blomstedt and the SFSO.  You're right about his shaping of lines and nuanced reading of Sibelius's organic structure.  I like their 3rd and 7th, however, and think their 1st and 2nd are revelatory, uncovering the distinctive Sibelian voice rather than obscuring it with overwrought Romanticism.

I also share your appreciation for Saraste...at least for his live set.

However, last night I listened to Vänskä's 7th for the first time on my upgraded hi fi system and was blown away, not only by Vänskä's restrained shaping of the performance, but also by the extraordinary sound quality of the BIS CD.


P.S.  I got distracted while writing the foregoing by the beauty of Karajan's Rosenkavalier and see that Lis interposed a comment.  I like the Ondine Segerstam set very much, too--in fact, it's my favorite among the lushly romantic Sibelius cycles--though my preference leans in the other direction toward the leanness and restraint of Vänskä and Blomstedt both.

[Greta]

Thanks for the recommendation, Lis! I would love to have a Finnish/Northern European set as I noticed I mostly have only Brits (?) but there is so much choice out there. Segerstam x2 (which Segerstam did you like Lis?), Vanska, papa Jarvi, Sakari, Saraste x 2, Berglund x 2. Did I forget any Scandnavians?

I know Rattle takes a beating for some of his interpretations (was just looking through the Sibelius threads at the old GMG ) but his Sibelius is enjoyable, for me anyway, and I maintain his 3rd is quite good. Very lyrical and the CBSO sounds lovely. I still need to spend more time with the Blomstedt 3rd and 7th though.

Maybe unusual, but the 3rd, along with the 4th, was hard for me to grasp for a while. I think the 2nd mvmt of the 3rd is really, really special, hypnotic even, the pizzicatos, especially the triples against the duples. Syncopation features heavily in Sibelius. I like the wind writing in that movement very much too.

There is so much Sibelius out there to hear, it's rather astonishing. Especially taking into account all the historical recordings.

Speaking of the old Sibelius threads, do DavidRoss or Herman post anymore since the forum moved? They always had a lot of interesting posts about their Sibelian explorations.

[George]

I must revisit my Bloomsedt cycle, as I was not very taken by it on first listen. 

[M forever]

Can't recall anything by Rattle I liked.  M praises his Nightride & Sunrise and I greatly respect (though don't always share) M's taste, but Rattle's penchant for self-indulgent expression of his "sensitivity" generally strikes me as affected, bloated, and downright sappy.

Have you heard this particular performance? There is really nothing in there of the mannerisms Rattle can fall into sometimes (as he did, for instance, in his Schubert 9 which is either totally bizarre or an interpretory revelation I simply don't get). It is just musically totally spot on, no detail passes by unnoticed and unshaped, and unlike some of his interpretations in which he takes the music apart to polish and manicure small details, but then doesn't know how to put everything back together, everything falls into place naturally here. I haven't heard any of his CBSO Sibelius symphonies recordings in a long long time, but I seem to remember that these are generally rather unmannered, but solidly crafted and "unvain" performances, too.

[George]

I must revisit my Bloomsedt cycle, as I was not very taken by it on first listen. 

After rehearing Symphony #1, I still find it too cool and objective. 

[rubio]

As we don't seem to have this kind of survey thread in the new forum here it goes. Which individual recordings do you find to be the most illuminating, well-played, atmospheric for the Sibelius symphonies 1-7? It would be even better if you could comment a bit on recordings you find particularly great. I can not contribute myself as I have not heard enough different versions for the indiviual symphonies.

[dirkronk]

Since I didn't post on that thread, I'll use this one to offer my usual recommendations.

For an entire cycle, my ears still tell me that no one has topped Rozhdestvensky's interpretations on Melodiya LP; YMMV, of course. He's not my fave in the 2nd, but in most of the rest, he's in serious contention with anyone I've heard. I don't recall if the entire set ever made it to CD...in Japan, maybe?

A friend has provided me with the cycle by Jarvi/Gothenburg on BIS, but I haven't yet fully immersed myself in his way with Sibelius; so far, I find it a mixed bag. I am generally NOT a fan of Berglund, Davis/Boston, later Karajan. I plan to investigate Davis's later Sibelius.

For individual performances, most of my choices are classic:
1. Stokowski on US Columbia LP (presumably now Sony on CD).
2. Barbirolli/RPO (Chesky on CD, from the Reader's Digest analog original); Szell/Cleveland from the live Tokyo 1970 tour.
4. Maazel (have this on LP, but I'm curious about the CD with his 7th, which I haven't heard).
5. Karajan--the older stereo performance on EMI/Angel.
7. Collins--it's ancient, it's mono, but it's so-o-o lovely.

Some recent acquisitions await my closer listening: a live Szell 3rd, the old Ormandy 2 & 7 (I'm not a big Ormandy fan, but I like these better in CD incarnation than I recall from LP days), and a few others.

FWIW,

Dirk

[Bonehelm]

Sibelius 5 - HvK/BPO
Sibelius 7 - Essa Pekka Salonen

[val]

Regarding the 7 Symphonies my preferred versions are:

Berglund, with the Bournemouth Orchestra

Bernstein with the NYP

Rojdestvenski

Regarding each Symphony:

1:  Bernstein (VPO), Kletzki (Philharmonia)

2:  Beecham (BBC Orchestra)

3: Bernsein (NYP), Kletzki (Philharmonia)

4:  Karajan (BPO)

5:  Davis, (Boston)

6:  Karajan (BPO)

7:  Bernsteijn (NYP), Beecham (RPO), Karajan (BPO)

[Harry]

For me that would be the older set of Neeme Jarvi, on BIS.
And the Sanderling recordings on Brilliant.
Individual recordings, Karajan on DGG, and Vanska on BIS.

[david johnson]

try watanabe/japan philharmonic (my lp set)
or sanderling on brilliant classics (my cd set)

dj

[head-case]

Regarding the 7 Symphonies my preferred versions are:

Berglund, with the Bournemouth Orchestra

Bernstein with the NYP

Rojdestvenski

Regarding each Symphony:

1:  Bernstein (VPO), Kletzki (Philharmonia)

2:  Beecham (BBC Orchestra)

3: Bernsein (NYP), Kletzki (Philharmonia)

4:  Karajan (BPO)

5:  Davis, (Boston)

6:  Karajan (BPO)

7:  Bernsteijn (NYP), Beecham (RPO), Karajan (BPO)

Again, Karajan recorded these works more than once with the BPO.  Which ones?

[gmstudio]

2.  Szell/Cleveland from the live Tokyo 1970 tour.

I heartily second this recommendation.

[val]

head-case

Again, Karajan recorded these works more than once with the BPO.  Which ones?

4th: 1965 (DG)

6th: 1968 (DG)

7th: 1968 (DG)

[Daverz]

For an entire cycle, my ears still tell me that no one has topped Rozhdestvensky's interpretations on Melodiya LP; YMMV, of course. He's not my fave in the 2nd, but in most of the rest, he's in serious contention with anyone I've heard. I don't recall if the entire set ever made it to CD...in Japan, maybe?

One the Venezia label. 

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1424517

[dirkronk]

One the Venezia label. 

http://www.hmv.co.jp/product/detail/1424517

Thank you, o intrepid CD hunter!


Dirk

[Sergeant Rock]

1 - Maazel/Vienna  Playing of such elemental power, it just stuns.

2 - Bernstein/Vienna and Szell/Concertgebouw (but I really need to get that Cleveland version) Two radically different but complimentary interpretations, the Bernstein completely over-the-top, even bombastic at times, the Szell cool and sleek.

3 - Ashkenazy/Philharmonia Very broadly paced and very "romanticized"--which this symphony can take, I believe.

4 - Maazel/Vienna This is, to me, the definitive version, as cold and bleak as any I've heard, and deeply disturbing; ultimately tragic.

5 - Berglund/Bournemouth and Berglund/COE  I like the way he handles the final pages. The grinding dissonances are emphasized and there's a real sense of struggle to achieve that final victory.

6 - Davis/Boston The Sixth was the Sibelius symphony that was hardest for me to come to grips with. It finally clicked when I heard Davis. Perfect tempo relationships; everything just makes sense. The first time I heard it I was mesmerized. Perhaps not the greatest Sixth ever but the one I'll always appreciate the most.

7 - This is a tough one. I haven't heard the perfect Seventh yet. The recent thread on this symphony brings up some of the problems. Among those I do like without being 100% convinced: Bernstein (both NY and Vienna), Rattle, Maazel, Segerstam and Ashkenazy (the last two heard for the first time just this afternoon).


Sarge

[dirkronk]

2 - Bernstein/Vienna and Szell/Concertgebouw (but I really need to get that Cleveland version) Two radically different but complimentary interpretations, the Bernstein completely over-the-top, even bombastic at times, the Szell cool and sleek.

I certainly recommend the Szell Tokyo version, Sarge, but be prepared for a very different take from Szell's Concertgebouw outing, which is one of those famous and critically-acclaimed performances that I've simply never warmed up to myself. This is odd, because as a rule I love Szell, regardless of what group he's conducting...and I love the Concertgebouw, especially when they're fired up for whoever's leading them. Dunno. Whether I was expecting more of an adrenaline rush or some other attribute, the recording just never hit my ears the right way, I guess. So for me, your "cool and sleek" is probably an apt description, but not what I prefer in the Sibelius 2. But the Tokyo live performance...there's the adrenaline! Not note-perfect, mind you, but there's no question that involvement and power are there in spades.

Cheers,

Dirk