Mascagni's Iris

[marvinbrown]

  I am putting together a shopping list of a handfull of operas I'd like to buy soon that includes Gluck's orfeo, Verdi's attila (thanks anne for your help with these two operas) and now I come to Mascagni's Iris. I have been putting off starting a thread on this particular opera as I had my doubts as to  whether the GMG members would be familiar with it.  But then again, I have seen some very obscure composers being mentioned on the GMG threads I figured it wouldn't hurt to try.  So here goes,

  Question 1: how many opera fans are familiar with Mascagni's Iris?
  Question 2: is it worth listening to?  I have heard some snippets and excerpts here and there though not enough to pass judgement on this opera
  Question 3:  I love Mascagni's Cavalleria Rusticana, how does Iris compare with Cavalleria Rusticana?     
                   (Specifically does it have as many memorable moments as Cavalleria)
  Question 4: Which recordings would you recommend if this opera is worth it?

  thank you all and I appreciate any feedback and advice you are willing to give.


  marvin

[T-C]

1. I have eleven of Mascagni's operas. Iris included.

2. Yes.

3. It is definitely not in the level of Cavalleria Rusticana. Non of the other Mascagni operas are. But after Cavalleria Rusticana, the best is L'Amico Fritz. If you don't have this opera, buy it before Iris...
The opening prelude and chorus of Iris is stunning.

4. I have only one recording of Iris. A CBS (Sony) recording with Tokody, Domingo and Pons. The conductor is Patane. I don't think there is a better recording.

[marvinbrown]

1. I have eleven of Mascagni's operas. Iris included.

2. Yes.

3. It is definitely not in the level of Cavalleria Rusticana. Non of the other Mascagni operas are. But after Cavalleria Rusticana, the best is L'Amico Fritz. If you don't have this opera, buy it before Iris...
The opening prelude and chorus of Iris is stunning.

4. I have only one recording of Iris. A CBS (Sony) recording with Tokody, Domingo and Pons. The conductor is Patane. I don't think there is a better recording.

  Thank you T.C. I will go for L'Amico Fritz instead!

  marvin

[T-C]

And the obvious recommendation for L'amico Fritz is the charming 1969 EMI recording with the young Freni and Pavarotti. The conductor is Gianandrea Gavazzeni.

This recording is available now quite cheaply in the "EMI Great Recordings" series:

[Sean]

That's some collection T-C must have. I know L'amico and it's disappointing, even if filling in the picture of the composer. I can't see myself expanding on it and Cavalleria unless I'm really short of music.

[marvinbrown]

That's some collection T-C must have. I know L'amico and it's disappointing, even if filling in the picture of the composer. I can't see myself expanding on it and Cavalleria unless I'm really short of music.

  Sean why do you believe that Cavalleria is the only opera worth exploring from Mascagni?  I am only familiar with Cavalleria, an opera I enjoy tremendously. I thought if Mascagni had talent to write a small masterpeice like Cavalleria then he is capable to producing other great works. Is Mascagni a "one hit wonder"?

  marvin

[Sean]

It would seem he is. His biography is of a flame burning brightly then tailing off in many ways.

By the way your posts do indicate a mind that is relatively alive inside. How old are you? Are you English or American?

[marvinbrown]

It would seem he is. His biography is of a flame burning brightly then tailing off in many ways.

By the way your posts do indicate a mind that is relatively alive inside. How old are you? Are you English or American?

   Thank you.  I am 34 years old and I am English- although I do have a mixed background and can speak a few languages.  I am highly educated, though scientifically so (I am a civil engineer). But most importantly, I love opera above all else.  Had it not been for opera I doubt I would have started listening to classical music, believe it or not.  Verissimo opera appeals to me which is why I started this thread.  I have Puccini's Tosca, Cav/Pag, Andrea Chenier, Fedora (not sure how many people have herad this one). I am still looking for that "missing" verissimo opera so to speak.  I thought I would find it with Mascagni.   

  Sean I must say,  you do amaze me with your exposure to classical music.  You posted a list a while back ago of all the classical music that you had heard at least 5 times and I could not recognize 70% of the music on that list.  Where and how did all this exposure come from and about?

  marvin

[Sean]

Hi there Marvin, I can see you're intelligent enough, possibly more intelligent than me and the route I've gone down that's rather boxed me into fruitless years of being a student and doing part time work- but which gave me opportunity to explore the repertory, for what it's worth. I certainly think it's worth something and stimulates those neurons in ways I feel we can hardly begin to imagine: the refined thought of some of the greatest minds is distilled in music for us to assimilate in a matter of hours- that's about as potent as it gets.

I'm 38 and English, from near Wolverhampton west of Birmingham, though a little antipathetical to my race and its institutionalized repression, cliquiness and lack of meritocracy- but that's my own experience and I appreciate the social system works well enough for many.

It's interesting enough that you got into art music via opera, which is usually the last area of exploration for most. Verismo stuff at its best is great for sure, and I have a definite soft spot for Andre Chenier and its lushness and decadence: I don't know Fedora (also by Giordano?), and I recently saw a recording of one of his called Siberia.

I've tried to get away from listening for at least 10 years but keep getting dragged back into a room with a desk and stuff to do, where there's no point in not putting something on the stereo and getting into something new. Some notes on my mad list-


I bought 1030 CDs by 1990 but sold them in 1998; before that I had about 250 tapes and 100 LPs. Since 1995 though I've been an avid borrower and recorder, and all I do now is keep a record of what I've explored- I listen to works at least five times before they go on a list.

It presently has 3323 hours of works by 1061 composers, including almost all the core repertory and over 300 operas; I try to have more important stuff cleared above the point I'm presently exploring in the vast pyramid of music's empire; JCF Bach was my 1000th composer who I got music by (though he's higher ranked than #1000!). It also includes about 6 CDs I've yet to play in my drawer.

That's over 16000 hours desk time, though total listening would be a good few thousand more; I've been listening since the mid '80s so it's an average of about two hours a day- not so much, I've just been lucky in my various circumstances to stay with it, although I listened to very little 1991-94. These days I play music in batches of about 6 hours' worth, x5.

All entries are fitted under one of seven categories: Orchestral, Chamber, Solo instrumental, Lieder etc, Voice and orch/ ens, Choral etc and Opera, in each case except Opera the entry being determined by scoring: initially a fair bit of thought went into the presentation, and there's always a new entry that doesn't fit into principles you set up.

MFL composers in birth date order is a reordering of the composers on the main list without their works, and Appendices & unknown music etc is six short lists of various queries and some music and names to explore next.

Complex art music reveals itself with repeated listening- the internalizing or idealizing process that accesses aesthetic meaning, moving us independent of any particular performance, is truly a transcendental and spiritual, life-changing experience, awakening and immeasurably enriching the mind with realms of meaning it'd never have known existed.

[marvinbrown]

Hi there Marvin, I can see you're intelligent enough, possibly more intelligent than me and the route I've gone down that's rather boxed me into fruitless years of being a student and doing part time work- but which gave me opportunity to explore the repertory, for what it's worth. I certainly think it's worth something and stimulates those neurons in ways I feel we can hardly begin to imagine: the refined thought of some of the greatest minds is distilled in music for us to assimilate in a matter of hours- that's about as potent as it gets.

I'm 38 and English, from near Wolverhampton west of Birmingham, though a little antipathical to my race and its institutionalized repression, cliquiness and lack of meritocracy- but that's my own experience and I appreciate the social system works well enough for many.

It's interesting enough that you got into art music via opera, which is usually the last area of exploration for most. Verismo stuff at its best is great for sure, and I have a definite soft spot for Andre Chenier and its lushness and decadence: I don't know Fedora (also by Giordano?), and I recently saw a recording of one of his called Siberia.

I've tried to get away from listening for at least 10 years but keep getting dragged back into a room with a desk and stuff to do, where there's no point in not putting something on the stereo and getting into something new. Some notes on my mad list-


I bought 1030 CDs by 1990 but sold them in 1998; before that I had about 250 tapes and 100 LPs. Since 1995 though I've been an avid borrower and recorder, and all I do now is keep a record of what I've explored- I listen to works at least five times before they go on a list.

It presently has 3323 hours of works by 1061 composers, including almost all the core repertory and over 300 operas; I try to have more important stuff cleared above the point I'm presently exploring in the vast pyramid of music's empire; JCF Bach was my 1000th composer who I got music by (though he's higher ranked than #1000!). It also includes about 6 CDs I've yet to play in my drawer.

That's over 16000 hours desk time, though total listening would be a good few thousand more; I've been listening since the mid '80s so it's an average of about two hours a day- not so much, I've just been lucky in my various circumstances to stay with it, although I listened to very little 1991-94. These days I play music in batches of about 6 hours' worth, x5.

All entries are fitted under one of seven categories: Orchestral, Chamber, Solo instrumental, Lieder etc, Voice and orch/ ens, Choral etc and Opera, in each case except Opera the entry being determined by scoring: initially a fair bit of thought went into the presentation, and there's always a new entry that doesn't fit into principles you set up.

MFL composers in birth date order is a reordering of the composers on the main list without their works, and Appendices & unknown music etc is six short lists of various queries and some music and names to explore next.

Complex art music reveals itself with repeated listening- the internalizing or idealizing process that accesses aesthetic meaning, moving us independent of any particular performance, is truly a transcendental and spiritual, life-changing experience, awakening and immeasurably enriching the mind with realms of meaning it'd never have known existed.

  Impressive, very impressive!  and yes Fedora is by Umberto Giordano, not very well known but I like it.  The plot is a bit weak but the music more than makes up for it.  I actually saw it performed live under a tent as part of the Holland Park "Opera in the Park" performances in London.


   marvin

[T-C]

That's some collection T-C must have. I know L'amico and it's disappointing, even if filling in the picture of the composer.

This is another demonstration of the variety of the human taste...
I think L'amico Fritz is a lovely little opera and the EMI recording is a classic.

As I pointed above, none of the operas Mascagni wrote after Cavalleria is a masterpiece with uniformly high level of inspiration, but some of them do contain charming music. L'amico Fritz is not a great operatic masterpiece, but for my taste it is enjoyable enough, with a few stunning pieces. To name just three: the famous 'Cherry duet', the very beautiful orchestral intermezzo or Fritz's second act aria (the best rendering for this aria is to be found in Rollando Villazon's first operatic disc on Virgin Classics).

 Verissimo opera appeals to me which is why I started this thread.  I have Puccini's Tosca, Cav/Pag, Andrea Chenier, Fedora (not sure how many people have herad this one). I am still looking for that "missing" verissimo opera so to speak. 

Marvin

Speaking of verismo, do you have only Tosca from the whole Puccini oeuvre?

Than you definitely need a few more Puccini opera before everything else:

Manon Lescaut
La Boheme
Madama Butterfly
La fanciulla del west
Il Trittico
Turandot

And then, maybe, Cilea's Adriana Lecouvreur...

[Anne]

 Impressive, very impressive!  and yes Fedora is by Umberto Giordano, not very well known but I like it.  The plot is a bit weak but the music more than makes up for it.  I actually saw it performed live under a tent as part of the Holland Park "Opera in the Park" performances in London.  Marvin

When Mirella Freni was retiring from singing, the Met had a performance of Fedora just for her, with her and Placido Domingo singing the starring parts.  Somewhere I have a video tape of a different performance which I have never watched.  Guess I should get busy.  

[marvinbrown]

Marvin

Speaking of verismo, do you have only Tosca from the whole Puccini oeuvre?

Than you definitely need a few more Puccini opera before everything else:

Manon Lescaut
La Boheme
Madama Butterfly
La fanciulla del west
Il Trittico
Turandot

And then, maybe, Cilea's Adriana Lecouvreur...

  Actually T.C. I do own all of Puccini's operas, I should have made that clear in my previous post.  But I am not familiar with Cilea's Adriana Lecouvreur.  I'll have to look into that one.  


 marvin

[Tsaraslondon]

   Actually T.C. I do own all of Puccini's operas, I should have made that clear in my previous post.  But I am not familiar with Cilea's Adriana Lecouvreur.  I'll have to look into that one. 


  marvin

Well I know it was a famous Tebaldi role, but the recording to go for, IMO, is the one with Scotto and Domingo. In all events, avoid the Sutherland with Bergonzi, recorded when both of them were well past their sell by dates. Callas sings the two main arias exceptionally well on her "Lyric and Coloratura" arias disc. Naxos have recently issued her Puccini Arias recital, and coupled it with the Lyric side of that record (which included the Adriana Lecouvreur arias). At Naxos price, it's irresistible.

[marvinbrown]

Well I know it was a famous Tebaldi role, but the recording to go for, IMO, is the one with Scotto and Domingo. In all events, avoid the Sutherland with Bergonzi, recorded when both of them were well past their sell by dates. Callas sings the two main arias exceptionally well on her "Lyric and Coloratura" arias disc. Naxos have recently issued her Puccini Arias recital, and coupled it with the Lyric side of that record (which included the Adriana Lecouvreur arias. At Naxos price, it's irresistible.

  Thank you Tsaraslondon  .

  marvin

[Tsaraslondon]

  Thank you Tsaraslondon  .

  marvin

Incidentally, the other arias added to the Puccini recital are La mamma morta from Giordano's Andrea Chenier, Ebben. Ne andro lontana from Catalani's La Wally and L'altra notte in fondo al mare from Boito's Mefistofele - all superb.

[Sarastro]

I have only one recording of Iris. A CBS (Sony) recording with Tokody, Domingo and Pons. The conductor is Patane.

I don't think there is a better recording.

What does make you think so, if you heard only one recording out of the ten?

[T-C]

What does make you think so, if you heard only one recording out of the ten?

Sarastro,

As far as I know, the CBS recording of Iris was the first commercial recording for this opera, and the only studio recording. Other recordings that are available are old live recordings usually with variable (to say the least) sound quality. Am I wrong?

The CBS recording is excellent both musically and technically. There are excellent reviews for this recording in various sources. That is why I think that there is no better recording of it. But you are definitely right: I think, I don't know! This was an assumption!

Which of the ten recordings that you have mentioned are better in your opinion?

By the way: The CBS recording is currently unavailable...

[yashin]

What about the newer live recording of Iris with Jose Cura and Daniela Dessi?

I have this one and it has a nice picture on the front.  Picked it up 2nd hand some years ago.  It is a nice opera...very much Madame Butterfly-ish. Jose Cura is in good voice-it was earlier on in his career before he started all the scooping and swooning and all the Ricky Martin facial expressions.

Not as familiar or melodic as Cav but then that was his Masterpiece.

One of Mascagni's operas i do enjoy is his take on La Boheme. I have the studio recording with Franco Bonisolli as Marcello and Bernd Weikl as Rodolfo. The great tenor aria has been performed by most major tenors.

[Wendell_E]

One of Mascagni's operas i do enjoy is his take on La Boheme. I have the studio recording with Franco Bonisolli as Marcello and Bernd Weikl as Rodolfo. The great tenor aria has been performed by most major tenors.

It's by Leoncavallo, not Mascagni.   It is quite enjoyable, though.