USA Politics (redux)

[Karl Henning]

Bunker Boy

[Herman]

as though he would.

You forget that everything he says is a lie.

Everything.

Both the White House and the Trump Hotel across Penn Ave were hermetically sealed, heavily guarded, while the Capitol was underprotected, and remained so for hours as Trump's guys were at it.

[SimonNZ]

just saw someone refer to OANN as ONAN

bravo

[greg]

The best course of action is prosecuting the hell out of everyone who entered the Capitol illegally.

That would be good.
I like how consistent your enthusiasm for prosecuting people doing bad stuff is with when the riots were going from people on the left for months nationwide, like when they were trying to burn down the Portland courthouse for days, and illegally sectioning part of Seattle to make the CHAZ.
That's really good that you can see doing dumb illegal stuff should be dealt with, regardless of political ideology. Being impartial and having higher principles is a good character trait.

[BWV 1080]

We have never before had a sitting president try to subvert the peaceful transfer of power - if this is not treason - i.e. a betrayal of the most important principle this country was founded on, then what is?

[BasilValentine]

That would be good.
I like how consistent your enthusiasm for prosecuting people doing bad stuff is with when the riots were going from people on the left for months nationwide, like when they were trying to burn down the Portland courthouse for days, and illegally sectioning part of Seattle to make the CHAZ.
That's really good that you can see doing dumb illegal stuff should be dealt with, regardless of political ideology. Being impartial and having higher principles is a good character trait.

Did someone here suggest that protesters who committed crimes shouldn't be arrested and prosecuted? I don't remember anyone doing that. The obvious difference in the two situations is that the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful and for the sake of important societal interests. And, in case you hadn't heard, a few of the most notorious instances of lawlessness and property damage were caused by counter protestors, as in the famous "umbrella man" affair. The insurgents at the capital killed people and entered with the intention of taking legislators prisoner and, according to what they were shouting, executing the vice president. So, in short, please file your BS false equivalence in the appropriate place.

And another thing. It would have been entirely appropriate for the capital police to have used every bullet they had on the mob running up the capital steps. That would have saved the millions of dollars it's now costing tax payers to track down, arrest, prosecute, and, eventually, to feed and house the thugs.

[greg]

Did someone here suggest that protesters who committed crimes shouldn't be arrested and prosecuted?

I remember it being shrugged off like it's not a big deal, "oh, Fox News is just using a fish eye lense to make it look worse than it is," etc. and more.
Many times rioters were let go, no big deal, I guess.

The obvious difference in the two situations is that the BLM protests were overwhelmingly peaceful 

So peaceful that it was at least 19 people that died?
(this isn't directed to you, but...)
Maybe... um... all (political) violence that isn't out of self-defense is bad?  Hmmm possibly in controversial territory there...

[Mirror Image]

That would be good.
I like how consistent your enthusiasm for prosecuting people doing bad stuff is with when the riots were going from people on the left for months nationwide, like when they were trying to burn down the Portland courthouse for days, and illegally sectioning part of Seattle to make the CHAZ.
That's really good that you can see doing dumb illegal stuff should be dealt with, regardless of political ideology. Being impartial and having higher principles is a good character trait.

I disagree with the extreme right and left. Both were wrong for doing what they did, but what makes the riot on the Capitol interesting is Trump did nothing to stop it and in fact was the principal instigator behind all of it, but yet he talked about what thugs these Black Lives Matter protestors were who vandalized property but said nothing to the scum that raided the Capitol. What's even more interesting is how Trump walked back these initial comments after telling them all he loved them the day of the riot.

[BasilValentine]

I remember it being shrugged off like it's not a big deal, "oh, Fox News is just using a fish eye lense to make it look worse than it is," etc. and more.
Many times rioters were let go, no big deal, I guess.
So peaceful that it was at least 19 people that died?
(this isn't directed to you, but...)
Maybe... um... all (political) violence that isn't out of self-defense is bad?  Hmmm possibly in controversial territory there...

Jeez man, unprincipled morons were trying to overthrow the government for the sake of a career criminal and sociopath whose only two viable options for the future are becoming a dictator or spending his remaining years in jail. There is no excuse in the world for even comparing the two situations. They're not remotely in the same category. One was a protest against a pervasive injustice. The other was an insurgency and criminal assault on democracy. 

[greg]

I disagree with the extreme right and left.

Bothsides-ist!

was the principal instigator behind all of it

Did he directly call for it?
I don't follow his Twitter or every one of his speeches so probably missed out on something.

One was a protest against a pervasive injustice.

Right. That's all it was.

[SimonNZ]

Trump repeatedly called for "revolution" after his election loss. That word many times...on top of all the other inflammatory shit he said.

And Trump could have diffused the BLM situation at any point by showing just a little bit of empathy and a thin veneer of saying bad cops will be brought to justice. Instead it suited him to continually escalate the anger.

[arpeggio]

On TV I saw a lawyer explained why we should impeach Trump after he leaves office.

An ex-president received many perks after he leaves office, including:
$200,000 annual pension.
$1,000,000 annual travel budget
Free medical
Secret Service protection
And other goodies

If he his impeached he would lose these and we tax payers would not have to pay for them.

[MusicTurner]

You forget that everything he says is a lie.

Everything.

(.....)

Sure, he has a record-breaking CV for it, and his remarks about joining the march were a way of promoting enthusiasm, based on his popularity as the leader. Like his continued - and very generous - use of the word 'we' for creating identity and propagating initiatives generally, including this one.

But some points against this being only lying are:

- saying that he 'will be there with you' also leaves the option open about exactly how and when. The idea was, with or without him, and even at the very least, to build up protest maximum pressure on GOP during the Capitol meeting. He has no respect for political tradition. The option of him turning up later, say if the protests became long-lasting, or took the form of a camp or a siege, was also suggested by those remarks, to the crowd. And exciting it further, of course.

- in a wider sense, 'being there' with them could include just turning up, or even just  driving by, like when he had Covid and drove by, greeting his fans from a closed car window, to much acclaim (by them).

- parts of the speech were from a teleprompter, that is, prepared, and parts of it were improvised. It's uncertain to me what is exactly the case here. But some reports suggest, that earlier, he had hoped - and maybe worked for - participants of policemen and army people in the march. Yet when watching TV footage of it, he was allegedly disappointed with the low-class appearance of the participants (though he liked the 'drama'). This, together with words from advisers, could be factors in his decision-making during the events, including that of not turning up.

[Herman]

That would be good.
I like how consistent your enthusiasm for prosecuting people doing bad stuff is with when the riots were going from people on the left for months nationwide, like when they were trying to burn down the Portland courthouse for days, and illegally sectioning part of Seattle to make the CHAZ.
That's really good that you can see doing dumb illegal stuff should be dealt with, regardless of political ideology. Being impartial and having higher principles is a good character trait.

I whole-heartedly supported the prosecution of Kyle Rittenhouse, who killed people, while you were busy finding excuses for his shooting people  -  maybe the people he killed had been previously convicted, and in your version of the USA you can kill anyone with a traffic ticket if you're having a bad day.

You really should keep on psychoanalysing yourself on topics noone else contributes to. Much better use of your time.

[Herman]

Republicans are writing a letter to Prez-elect Biden asking him to press house Democrats to stop pushing for an impeachment now, since it would be "divisive" en "inflammatory".

This just days after the circus they wanted to make of Jan 6 predictably turned into killing and mayhem.

You gotta love those Republicans....

Impeach and prosecute under the law.

[Brahmsian]

Amazon, Apple and Google have all disabled and booted Parler.

[Karl Henning]

Did someone here suggest that protesters who committed crimes shouldn't be arrested and prosecuted?

Not ever, not in the least. Greg cannot argue, so he fantasizes.

[Karl Henning]

Republicans largely silent about consequences of deadly attack and Trump's role in inciting it

[T. D.]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-10/trump-plans-defiant-final-week-as-many-democrats-urge-his-ouster

Banned from social media and abandoned by some staff after inciting a riot at the U.S. Capitol, President Donald Trump and a dwindling circle of advisers plan a defiant final week in office, according to people familiar with the matter.

Trump is confident Vice President Mike Pence and members of his cabinet won't attempt to remove him under the 25th Amendment, the people said. Pence is dismissive of the idea of trying to use that authority to drive Trump from office, one person said.

The president and some allies also believe Democrats are overreaching by trying to once again impeach him over Wednesday's mob at the Capitol, and think Senate conviction would be unlikely in any event.

One adviser called Democratic consideration of impeachment a political gift to Trump. Pence hasn't discussed the 25th Amendment beyond privately dismissing the approach as not feasible, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Trump and Pence haven't spoken since Wednesday, though, when the vice president sheltered in place at the Capitol after the building was stormed by Trump supporters. Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma told the Tulsa World newspaper he'd "never seen Pence as angry" as he was after being blasted by Trump for not intervening in the congressional count of Electoral College votes. Trump tweeted that Pence lacked "courage."

Border Wall

Trump plans to run out the clock on his four years in office by highlighting what he believes are his biggest accomplishments, including the barrier his administration built on at least part of the U.S. border with Mexico. A trip to Alamo, Texas, near the border is expected on Tuesday, a White House spokesman said.

Trump is also preparing at least one more round of pardons, and will try a final time to advance his administration's effort to bring Big Tech to heel, the people said, though it isn't clear what he may do.

...

Trump's views on the matter normally wouldn't be much of a secret. But without his Twitter account, @realDonaldTrump, and after a failed, whack-a-mole effort to post from alternative accounts, an eerie silence has descended over the White House.

Inside, Trump has spoken with aides including Mark Meadows, Jared Kushner, Dan Scavino and Kayleigh McEnany, the people said. Outside the building, there's public clamor to remove Trump before his term ends. Some 57% of Americans want the president removed immediately, a Reuters/Ipsos poll published Friday found, while nearly 70% disapprove of Trump's actions leading up to the Capitol riot.

Talk of impeachment or removal from office would make Trump a martyr to his base, one person said. If the vice president led an effort to remove him, it would only reinforce Trump's declarations that a "deep state" of government bureaucrats has long been bent on opposing him, another said.

Base Galvanized
Between the impeachment movement and Trump's censorship by social media, the president and his advisers believe his supporters are galvanized. Trump feels impeachment could have a boomerang effect on Democrats, one person said, while another dismissed it as the latest Democratic witch hunt.

Trump and his team will respond to the Twitter ban during his final week in office by leaning into his fight against what he's called censorship of Republicans by large technology companies. The president has long demanded that Congress revoke Section 230, a liability waiver social media companies depend upon to allow relatively unfettered speech on their platforms. He'll likely amplify that call, though Biden's inauguration on Jan. 20 and Democrats' takeover of the Senate is expected to snuff out prospects for any change to the law for now.

Trump has prepared several executive orders related to Big Tech companies but it's not clear if any will be issued, one person said.

It isn't clear if Trump's team is yet preparing for a Senate impeachment trial. White House counsel Pat Cipollone won't be involved, after leading Trump's defense during his first impeachment a year ago, in part because his job ends with Biden's inauguration, one person familiar with the matter said. Deputy Counsel Pat Philbin also will not not participate, the person said.

Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani didn't respond to messages seeking comment on Saturday. Neither did Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard Law School, or Jay Sekulow, an outside attorney, who both represented Trump at his first impeachment trial.

The Senate won't reconvene until Jan. 19 and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday in a memo to colleagues that a trial can't begin before then unless all 100 senators consent to it -- an exceedingly unlikely development, as Trump retains allies among Republicans in the chamber.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Not ever, not in the least. Greg cannot argue, so he fantasizes.

Glad that they have caught some of the people involved in it; keep at it!

PD