Europe at War

[Que]

Yes. I think, though, that there will be no all-out war between Russia and Ukraine. As for scenarios regarding massive annexations of Ukrainian lands, as far as the border with Romania (!), I find them far-fetched in the extreme.

Putin will soon be at your doorstep....

I guess the prospect was too gloomy to even consider the possibility.

[MusicTurner]

Apparently Putin's declaration of war was recorded already on Monday.

[Rinaldo]

Thinking of the packed Odessa opera house where I've witnessed a hilariously terrible production of La traviata back in 2019. Relatives of my colleagues are fleeing the city right now. I'll spare you the expletives but my veins are flooded by pure hate for that heinous little apparatchik.

[Scion7]

With this move, Putin joins the ranks of the Mongol Khans, Hitler and Mao.
Good going, you five-foot little tin-horn unbalanced murderer.

[Que]

The main aim should be now to cripple, and if possible: destroy, the Russian economy.

But this will be hard to achieve and will come at a price...

[Florestan]

Putin will soon be at your doorstep....

I guess the prospect was too gloomy to even consider the possibility.

I thought Putin was a scoundrel but not a crazy one. I was wrong, he's insane.

The big problem is he does what he does not so much because he's mad as because he can.

And an even bigger problem is that he could --- and actually did --- invoke the Kosovo precedent, where the USA did exactly what Russia does now: bombing a sovereign nation which did not attack them nor in any way posed any threat to their security into accepting that its territorial integrity be amputated. He can claim the USA has no higher moral ground, let alone any right, to condemn others for doing what the USA had already done. I hate to say it but he's right.

I'm tempted to think that the Russians are the scourge of the earth and that the evil they did, do and will do far outbalance any good that ever come from them. I'm tempted to never ever read Riussian literature, listen to Russian music or performers orr in any way have anything to do with anything Russian from now on. I know I'm exaggerating but that's how I feel right now.

[Florestan]

Putin will soon be at your doorstep....

I just hope he's not that out of his fucking minds as to attack a NATO country.

[Harry]

Christ, The Kiev airport is already taken. A friend of mine just called and saw that happen.

[Que]

I just hope he's not that out of his fucking minds as to attack a NATO country.

I don't think he will, but all reports indicate that Putin aims to occupy the Black Sea coast including Odessa. Romania will probably have Putin as its new neighbour.

BTW Now Belarus has allowed Russian troops on its territory to attack another sovereign nation, will Belarus now be "reunited" with Russia?

[Florestan]

I don't think he will, but all reports indicate that Putin aims to occupy the Black Sea coast including Odessa. Romania will probably have Putin as its new neighbour.

Oh, there'll be nothing new actually. We had Russia as a direct neighbour for hundreds of years. The novelty was not having them as neighbours for two decades. 

[Scion7]

Of course he's not rational.
European leaders who have met with him have stated that for some time.
He's a megalomaniac and a thug.  Might have something to do with being short (and elsewhere) and picked on earlier in life.
We are at the mercy of whomever in his military establishment is the LEAST stable.

Keep hoping someone will fall on their sword and kill him for the good of Russia ...

[Florestan]

Of course he's not rational.
European leaders who have met with him have stated that for some time.
He's a megalomaniac and a thug. 

Obviously.

Keep hoping someone will fall on their sword and kill him for the good of Russia ...

I wouldn't hold my breath.

Anyway, I will join in the sanctions against Russia and buy no more gasoline from Lukoil.

[Que]

Oh, there'll be nothing new actually. We had Russia as a direct neighbour for hundreds of years.

During which Romania was a Russian protectorate or satellite state most of the time.

[Florestan]

During which Romania was a Russian protectorate or satellite state most of the time.

No, not most of the time. To cut a long story short, we were under Russian military occupation several times (seven, IIRC) for periods extending from a few weeks to a few years, we were a satellite state between 1948-1989 (although Ceausescu moved increasingly away from the official USSR line) and we suffered several territorial losses (which, incidentally, all of them ended up belonging to Ukraine). Russia began to increasingly meddle in our affairs starting 1829. Fortunately, the 1848 Revolution in both Wallachia and Moldavia (they took place much more against Russian encroachments than against the at the time very nominal Ottoman suzerainty) and the Crimean War put a stop to that; to this day the Turks and their influence are resented in a much lesser degree than the Russians and theirs*. But most of the time we were either under Ottoman nominal suzerainty or independent. We have never been a part of the Russian Empire, neither de jure nor de facto.

(*think of it: between 1866-1877 we were a Principality under Ottoman suzerainty, yet during all this time we had one of the most liberal Constitutions in Europe, a bicameral Parliament and a two-party very animated political life. None of those could be found in contemporary Russia.  )

Nowadays the situation is completely different, though. We are NATO and EU members and have a strong strategic partnership with the US. We have never been in a more secure position and I am not afraid of a Russian invasion. Still, the news of having Russia as a neghbour again is not a good one.

[Florestan]

the news of having Russia as a neghbour again is not a good one.

One of Putin's goals is certainly the Chilia branch of the Danube, which currently belongs to Ukraine (the other two, Sulina and St. George, belong to Romania).

We were planning to spend our holiday this year in St. George, a charming little village located where the St. George branch flows into the Black Sea, literally far from the madding crowd. The way things go right now, we'll probably see Russian vessels at point-blank.

[milk]

Obviously.

But isn't he rational in the sense that his reasons are understandable? I think he's a thug too. And Russia is a drag. But he's not crazy, right? I assume he has institutional support for his shenanigans. What are the chances that he loses support with insiders? There are some in the U.S. calling this Munich and that just sounds silly.

[Florestan]

But isn't he rational in the sense that his reasons are understandable? I think he's a thug too. And Russia is a drag. But he's not crazy, right?

I think he is clinically insane.

[Que]

I think he is clinically insane.

Most dictators are sociopaths or psychopaths.

[Florestan]

Most dictators are sociopaths or psychopaths.

True. Not that democratically elected leaders are immune to that, though. 

[milk]

I think he is clinically insane.

Interesting. I wonder if it's possible that this is a gambit he could lose then. He could get very bogged down and have economic sanctions eat away at him. That might lead to him finally getting removed? Sounds like a kind of too-good-to-hope-for scenario.