Your Country in a Classical Music Nutshell

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Sure, I'll post an album on your behalf.

I believe Ogawa's Symphony, "The Castle of Japan" to be a great musical representation of Japan. It captures a certain spirit with its fantastic hybrid of Japanese traditional and European instruments.

Good choice and nice music. I like Akutagawa and Dan Ikuma as well but they are very European mode.

[DaveF]

Assuming by "imperial glories" you are referencing Elgar 2 above....... that is to misunderstand Elgar 2 and fall into the perennial trap of equating Elgar with Empire......

You're quite right, of course, and it was lazy of me to reach for such a glib phrase.  It would be bad enough if I really did put the Second Symphony on the same level as Pomp and Circumstance, but since I've known it for 40 years (mainly in your recommended Handley version) and played in a performance of it, I should really have done better.  Perhaps the fascination of Elgar 2 is that it tries to strut the Imperial stuff, but is constantly being pulled in much darker directions by neuroses, nostalgia and sheer terror.  All good solid English virtues!

[foxandpeng]

This thread has reminded me how much I love Rubbra's 3rd under Hickox, with the BBC NOoW. In order for this to fit here, then the definition probably needs to be the UK rather than England. Or Britain. Or Great Britain, even. Or Majestic Colonial Overlords. Or something.

Anyway, this. I am too hot today 😒🌞🌞

Rubbra 3. Possibly in my top 3 of all English symphonies.

[pjme]

Andrei's question proves to be quite difficult . Belgium doesn't have a composer of Enescu's stature - let alone a Dvorak, Debussy or Bartok.
Peter Benoit was an important figure but he wrote little symphonic music of substance....Moreover our country is (still) divided, bi-lingual and torn between German and French cultural influences. Who shall I choose? And why? Should I go for "folklorism" or a broader more "international" expression?
Flemish dances by Jan Blockx or a Brueghel symphony by Sternefeld? Joseph Jongen or André Souris? Fernand Quinet or Pierre Bartholomée?

Here's Arthur Meulemans third symphony , the "Dennen symfonie" , symphony of the fir trees. Actually it is a portrait of the city of Aarschot and its surroundings. Meulemans was born in Aarschot and mixes in this work influences ranging from Debussy, Ravel and Respighi.
It will do for a warm summer evening ...

I wish I could offer a version with conductor Daniel Sternefeld, but that doesn't exist. Sternefeld (and Franz André) worked for Belgian Radio and created many works by both Flemish and Walloon composers.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xk2ALXiAmCM

[Mirror Image]

Andrei's question proves to be quite difficult . Belgium doesn't have a composer of Enescu's stature - let alone a Dvorak, Debussy or Bartok.
Peter Benoit was an important figure but he wrote little symphonic music of substance....Moreover our country is (still) divided, bi-lingual and torn between German and French cultural influences. Who shall I choose? And why? Should I go for "folklorism" or a broader more "international" expression?
Flemish dances by Jan Blockx or a Brueghel symphony by Sternefeld? Joseph Jongen or André Souris? Fernand Quinet or Pierre Bartholomée?

Here's Arthur Meulemans third symphony , the "Dennen symfonie" , symphony of the fir trees. Actually it is a portrait of the city of Aarschot and its surroundings. Meulemans was born in Aarschot and mixes in this work influences ranging from Debussy, Ravel and Respighi.
It will do for a warm summer evening ...

I wish I could offer a version with conductor Daniel Sternefeld, but that doesn't exist. Sternefeld (and Franz André) worked for Belgian Radio and created many works by both Flemish and Walloon composers.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xk2ALXiAmCM

Wasn't César Franck a Belgian composer? In his short life, Guillaume Lekeu produced some exquisite music, too.

[Florestan]

Wasn't César Franck a Belgian composer? In his short life, Guillaume Lekeu produced some exquisite music, too.

Vieuxtemps too was Belgian.

[Mirror Image]

Vieuxtemps too was Belgian.

Yeah, so there were some fine Belgian composers after all. Another one to mention is Eugène Ysaÿe.

[Florestan]

Eugène Ysaÿe.

Yep, a fine composer.

[pjme]

Yes, all "fine" composers...but "great"?  Franck was born in Liège/Belgium , but died in Paris ( and I dislike his music...).
For a country that is proud of its surrealism, we do miss also a great crazy Scriabin/Langgaard....

[Mirror Image]

Good choice and nice music. I like Akutagawa and Dan Ikuma as well but they are very European mode.

Yes, I would say that Akutagawa and Ikuma are a bit more Western in their musical outlook overall.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Andrei's question proves to be quite difficult . Belgium doesn't have a composer of Enescu's stature - let alone a Dvorak, Debussy or Bartok.
Peter Benoit was an important figure but he wrote little symphonic music of substance....Moreover our country is (still) divided, bi-lingual and torn between German and French cultural influences. Who shall I choose? And why? Should I go for "folklorism" or a broader more "international" expression?
Flemish dances by Jan Blockx or a Brueghel symphony by Sternefeld? Joseph Jongen or André Souris? Fernand Quinet or Pierre Bartholomée?

Here's Arthur Meulemans third symphony , the "Dennen symfonie" , symphony of the fir trees. Actually it is a portrait of the city of Aarschot and its surroundings. Meulemans was born in Aarschot and mixes in this work influences ranging from Debussy, Ravel and Respighi.
It will do for a warm summer evening ...

I wish I could offer a version with conductor Daniel Sternefeld, but that doesn't exist. Sternefeld (and Franz André) worked for Belgian Radio and created many works by both Flemish and Walloon composers.

https://www.youtube.com/v/xk2ALXiAmCM

Wonderful music, and one of many excellent composers in Belgium.

[pjme]

A last note on Belgian music :
it still exists, we do have young composers.

https://www.youtube.com/v/O8jNxPkpjRA

https://www.youtube.com/v/3N86Ntv0WFE

[Mirror Image]

Yes, all "fine" composers...but "great"?  Franck was born in Liège/Belgium , but died in Paris ( and I dislike his music...).
For a country that is proud of its surrealism, we do miss also a great crazy Scriabin/Langgaard....

I believe Franck to be a great composer. It doesn't really matter where the composer died. He was a Belgian composer and is recognized as such.

[pjme]

cannot help it - a lot of his music (esp. the symphony and the violin sonata) represents the unpleasant(stuffy, boring, bigotry...) aspects of 19th century music. I do like Le chasseur maudit and the Variations symphoniques, though....

[Mirror Image]

cannot help it - a lot of his music (esp. the symphony and the violin sonata) represents the unpleasant(stuffy, boring, bigotry...) aspects of 19th century music. I do like Le chasseur maudit and the Variations symphoniques, though....

No need to defend your position, my friend. We all have our likes/dislikes but this concept is difficult for some other members to understand.

[DaveF]

Belgium doesn't have a composer of Enescu's stature -

The concept of Belgium may not have existed in their day, but, just to mention a few at random: Dufay, Binchois, Busnois, Clemens non Papa, Philippe de Monte, Lassus, possibly Josquin, Gombert, Ockeghem, Willaert - all born within the present-day borders of the nation.  Practically a Who's Who of 15th- and 16th-century music.

[LKB]

After some pondering, my entry for the USA is Copeland yet again, specifically The Red Pony suite:

https://www.amazon.com/Copland-Conducts-M%C3%A9xico-American-Sketches/dp/B0000026GF/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3RGRQZ5O6AEUJ&keywords=copland+the+red+pony&qid=1657755762&sprefix=copland+the+red+pony%2Caps%2C716&sr=8-2

So many references, from the Civil War to casual bunkhouse humor to childish wonder. And it's a film score!

[Mirror Image]

After some pondering, my entry for the USA is Copeland yet again, specifically The Red Pony suite:

https://www.amazon.com/Copland-Conducts-M%C3%A9xico-American-Sketches/dp/B0000026GF/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3RGRQZ5O6AEUJ&keywords=copland+the+red+pony&qid=1657755762&sprefix=copland+the+red+pony%2Caps%2C716&sr=8-2

So many references, from the Civil War to casual bunkhouse humor to childish wonder. And it's a film score!

Yeah, Copland's The Red Pony Suite is a great piece and it coming from a film work doesn't bother me at all when the music is this infectious.

[KlassiskDronning]

Beethoven's #9th? It is the national anthem of EU but it would make even more sense to be Deutschland.
Also Rule Britannia, for England.
And Denmark would be Rise of the Valkyries...

[pjme]

The concept of Belgium may not have existed in their day, but, just to mention a few at random: Dufay, Binchois, Busnois, Clemens non Papa, Philippe de Monte, Lassus, possibly Josquin, Gombert, Ockeghem, Willaert - all born within the present-day borders of the nation.  Practically a Who's Who of 15th- and 16th-century music.

Thanks....but I definitely would have loved that Belgium had fathered a composer that stood out in the 19th- 20th century. Franck is an exception, but his fame was mainly built in France (the Franck family moved to France when Cesar was 13 years old, he was naturalised as a Frenchman in 1837).

Quite possibly some gems are still waiting to be explored in the oeuvre of Paul Gilson, Flor Alpaerts (I just discovered that he wrote a "Spring symphony in 1907 - with "vocal elements" in the last movement), Robert Herberigs, Karel Candael, Lodewijk mortelmans, Lodewijk Devocht, Victor Vreuls, Arthur De Greef, Willem Kersters....René Barbier, Désiré Paques (7 symphonies!), Jean Louel, Marcel Poot, René Defossez, Marcel and Fernand Quinet....
Apart from Phaedra cds and the occasional BRT/KLARA cd very little enthusiasm is shown for our more recent musical history.