Scriabins Temple

[relm1]

That "exotic" late Scriabin is the one I can't digest yet. I've tried with many piano pieces (the orchestral ones are a different matter), but they don't elicit anything on me and they all sound similar to these ears. Am I missing anything?

Maybe try that disk I mentioned because it walks you through a progression that can come across as radical unless you see it naturally evolve though at the end, there isn't much in common with the early Chopin style, each work has a reasonable progression to the next.  I'm definitely not an expert on Scriabin's piano music but I very much enjoy what I've heard. 

[ritter]

This is such a gorgeous release!  What I enjoy so much about this release is how it sort of summarizes the composer.  You have early music that sounds like Chopin, Rachmaninoff (not derivative but always personal) but eventually dives into the exotic late Scriabin.  It's just so beautiful.

Interesting! Thanks for bringing that disc to our attention.

Vincent Larderet has been a great champion of the music of Florent Schmitt on disc, and I think he's an excellent pianist. Will seek this Scriabin disc out.

[Symphonic Addict]

Maybe try that disk I mentioned because it walks you through a progression that can come across as radical unless you see it naturally evolve though at the end, there isn't much in common with the early Chopin style, each work has a reasonable progression to the next.  I'm definitely not an expert on Scriabin's piano music but I very much enjoy what I've heard.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I don't want to give up with that music, so I'll persevere by trying the aforementioned recording.

[Mandryka]

Thanks for the encouraging words. I don't want to give up with that music, so I'll persevere by trying the aforementioned recording.

One way into Scriabin is to really relax and let yourself get caught up in the eroticism of the music. Another way is to tense up and let yourself get caught up in the counterpoint. There may be a third way . . .

[relm1]

One way into Scriabin is to really relax and let yourself get caught up in the eroticism of the music. Another way is to tense up and let yourself get caught up in the counterpoint. There may be a third way . . .

I think you're on to something.  It works at different levels.  Some of the music is complex and virtuosic.  Some of it is decadent and luxurious.  All these aspects might be in the same work and you can focus on which element appeals more to you.

[Mandryka]

Listening to Boris Berman play Scriabin sonatas.

I read somewhere that there's a review in the American Record Guide and Fanfare which comments that Berman's style is very much consistent with how people described Scriabin's own playing. This was the comment I found

When the Boris Berman set came out on Music&Arts several years ago, it
was reviewed in both Fanfare and American Record Guide. Comparison of the
reviews was *quite* interesting: both critics heard the same
characteristics, but one panned the recordings and one praised them.
The critic who praised the Berman recordings related the sound and manner
to the descriptions of Scriabin's own playing: the phrase "like kittens
mewling" sticks in my mind. I felt that this was a more informed view
than that of the other critic who evidently did not have the same
background knowledge.

Whether it is desirable for a modern performance to resemble Scriabin's
own, or not, is an open question, but I do not regret having bought the
Berman set as a result of the favorable review.

--

If anyone has access I'd be really interested to know more about these descriptions of Scriabin's style.

I think Berman is well worth hearing.

[Cato]

Listening to Boris Berman play Scriabin sonatas.

I read somewhere that there's a review in the American Record Guide and Fanfare which comments that Berman's style is very much consistent with how people described Scriabin's own playing. This was the comment I found


If anyone has access I'd be really interested to know more about these descriptions of Scriabin's style.

I think Berman is well worth hearing.

Here is Boris Berman's performance of the Piano Sonata #6.

https://www.youtube.com/v/j7AKGUNcTk8&list=OLAK5uy_mfP4NsztcZY69o5OxIz6nbqfxH4iKhIKs&index=14

Concerning Scriabin's "sound" when he was playing:

Composing in the early years of the 20th century, Scriabin's work could not be recorded clearly or accurately.  How his music was intended to sound remained shrouded in mystery. Hence, Leikin had to rely on rolls of perforated musical scores that contained the nuanced notes and directions from Scriabin himself.  The Scriabin scrolls, created by the composer himself,  were rare and worked in much the way that player piano rolls of the 1920s and 30s did.  Many were missing, and there were few pianos still remaining capable of playing these rare scrolls.


Knowing that the rolls were the key to the only accurate recreation of the composer's style, Leikin tracked down two forms of the Scriabin rolls, one set made in 1908, and another set in 1910.  This latter set were the most valuable. "My collaborator found the first rolls in a private collection in Russia," Leikin recalls. Then Leikin began tracking down more, finding some in Sweden, others in The Hague, and still more in London.  What he found had been stored away, but not catalogued. A genuine musicological muddle. Eventually he hit the jackpot and found the last rare piano scrolls in an archive halfway across the world.  What did he do?  "I xeroxed them!" he chuckles.  Then the laborious task of transcribing the copies began.  "It took an entire summer to transcribe two sonatas!"

See:

https://arts.ucsc.edu/features/featured-faculty/anatole-leikin

[Mandryka]

Thanks Cato. I see that Anatole Leikin has a Scriabin CD too, on Centaur.

[staxomega]

Can piano rolls reveal that much information to get the description of

"The critic who praised the Berman recordings related the sound and manner
to the descriptions of Scriabin's own playing: the phrase "like kittens mewling" sticks in my mind"

To me piano rolls have mostly revealed tempo relationships within movements (ie rubato), overall tempo but can't distinguish things like dynamics. Or it sounds more like they had second hand information from people that had seen Scriabin play, in which case I would also like to read more from these Fanfare and American Record Guide reviews.

My own impression of what sounds idiomatic is Sofronitsky and Richter; demonic playing that makes it sound like the stereo is possessed in the later sonatas. Never really heard any modern tape/digital era pianists like that (maybe Alexeev? It's been a while since I have heard him). Horowitz in a similar realm as those other two for the tonal purity and color but lacking in the left hand weight of them.

[Mandryka]

My own impression of what sounds idiomatic is Sofronitsky and Richter

I have two recordings of Sofronitsky playing the 8th sonata --one runs for 12.38 and the other, a late Scriabin Museum recording, runs for 13.12

We know he said he rethought how to play Chopin when he was ill -- it looks as though he rethought how to play Scriabin too.

[Mandryka]

Anyone get along with the op 25 mazurkas - or am I right to think that there are just too many notes?

[Madiel]

I think op.25 is fine. But op.3 is pretty boring.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I like all the Mazurkas. I don't like some Sonatas with Rachmaninoffian/Slavic minor themes.

[Mandryka]

I've decided I'm not ready for op 25. But I am ready for the later preludes - listening tonight to the second of Paul Komen's two CDs of preludes. Komen is a good pianist - I knew that before from his Beethoven.



There is, by the way, a really magic recording of Gilels playing some very late preludes.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I've decided I'm not ready for op 25. But I am ready for the later preludes - listening tonight to the second of Paul Komen's two CDs of preludes. Komen is a good pianist - I knew that before from his Beethoven.

Very different interpretation. Nice change. Controversial.

[staxomega]

I have two recordings of Sofronitsky playing the 8th sonata --one runs for 12.38 and the other, a late Scriabin Museum recording, runs for 13.12

We know he said he rethought how to play Chopin when he was ill -- it looks as though he rethought how to play Scriabin too.

I have a 1958 recording on Denon CD titled "Legendary Scriabin Recital" that is 13:07 (using Amazon art), maybe it is the same as the 13:12 with differences in silence at the end and beginning? I don't have a rip of that Denon CD at this house to check. I did listen to this one that is 13:12

https://youtu.be/NLVv-YOZQx8

It pretty much sounds like how I'd expect Sofronitsky to interpret it. In a piece like Piano Sonata 8 where there is a lot more atmosphere than something like Black Mass, the slightly longer duration sounds completely natural.

Anyone get along with the op 25 mazurkas - or am I right to think that there are just too many notes?

I should put in more of an effort to get to know both opus. For complete ones I only have Sofronitsky and Lettberg. Besides the Piano Sonatas, the Preludes are the standout for me.

I'm a bit obsessed with the Piano Sonatas. Maybe in my lifetime we will get a truly outstanding cycle where every sonata is top notch.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Recently, I revisited these lesser-known recordings with early Preludes and I found them very likable.   

[Mandryka]

Very different interpretation. Nice change. Controversial.

Ah, I wasn't aware! New music to me.

[Mandryka]

I have a 1958 recording on Denon CD titled "Legendary Scriabin Recital" that is 13:07 (using Amazon art), maybe it is the same as the 13:12 with differences in silence at the end and beginning? I don't have a rip of that Denon CD at this house to check. I did listen to this one that is 13:12

https://youtu.be/NLVv-YOZQx8

It pretty much sounds like how I'd expect Sofronitsky to interpret it. In a piece like Piano Sonata 8 where there is a lot more atmosphere than something like Black Mass, the slightly longer duration sounds completely natural.

I should put in more of an effort to get to know both opus. For complete ones I only have Sofronitsky and Lettberg. Besides the Piano Sonatas, the Preludes are the standout for me.

I'm a bit obsessed with the Piano Sonatas. Maybe in my lifetime we will get a truly outstanding cycle where every sonata is top notch.

Acrording to Christian's discography, there are the following recordings of the 8th sonata

25.149. Sonate n° 8, opus 66
• [25.149A] Date : 1958-05-05 (lundi). Durée : 12m 30s
1 ▶ . Lieu : Moskva (Arbat, musée Skrjabin).
Enregistrement : en direct.
◦ Sur disque vinyle ⦿ : Melodija Russian Disc 10 1071/4.
• [25.149B] Date : 1958-06-08 (dimanche). Durée : 12m 58s
2 ▶ . Lieu : Moskva (conservatoire, petite
salle). Enregistrement : en direct.
◦ Sur disque vinyle ⦿ : Melodija M10 42795/804 (« Enregistrements complets », vol. 7).
◦ Sur disque compact ⦶ : Arlecchino ARL 119, Le Chant du monde LDC 278764, Classound
CLAS 001-025, Denon COCO-80187, Denon COCQ-83970, Meldac MECC 26012, Melodija MEL
CD 10 02312/5, Melodija MEL CD 10 02395/5, Melodija/Bukok DE 0177, Profil Hänssler DCD
PH15007, Scribendum SC817/03, Vista Vera VVCD-00136.
• [25.149C] Date : 1960-12-24 (samedi). Durée : 13m 12s
3 ▶ . Lieu : Moskva (Arbat, musée Skrjabin).
Enregistrement : en direct.
◦ Sur disque compact ⦶ : Arbiter ARB 157, Vista Vera VVCD-00233

So I was mistaken to say that one of mine is significantly earlier than the other. He was diagnosed with cancer in 1958, and that's when he said he rethought his approach to pieces in his repertoire. However, he had a big setback in 1959 and, in pain, he gave a small number of recitals in 1960 before succumbing -- including, it seems, a sonata 8. 


https://github.com/cscheen/sofronitsky#discographie-au-format-pdf

[Mandryka]

I just got this email from the record label Sakuraphon

A.Scriabin 150th Anniverssery : La Nuit x Sakuraphon at the "Salon de Parfum 2022"
At the "Salon de Parfum 2022", which was a great success at the Isetan Shinjuku 6th floor, we had a talk show with @lanuit_fragrance, who produced the three sonatas of #Scriabin as perfume.

I found a perfumer who has a synesthesia of sound and scent, and I think that the eau de Parfum, which is an original blend of the image of the song, is a wonderful accompaniment to indulging in the esoteric and mysterious late sonata works.

This is my opinion,
"Sonata No. 7 White Mass" is close to herbs and high-quality essential oils, and has a familiar scent as a room fragrance. ( Recording:  Robert Crnman)

"Sonata No. 9 Black Mass" deliberately excludes the top note and has a middle note that lasts for a long time. ( Recording:  Samuel Yaffe)

"Sonata No. 10 Insects", as Scriabin himself explained, is a nature-returning scent that says that insects, butterflies, moths, and plants are all made of the sun. An organic blend that highlights the spicy notes of cardamom along with citrus notes. ( Recording:  Katherine Ruth Heyman)

I was wary of such dubious products, but as you can see from the specialists sent to me in the attached booklet, it's a full-fledged maniac item.
I think that is also reflected in the fact that I dared to choose Scriabin's performance before it was fixed as the sound source recorded on the CD.

Mr. Ebihara of @lanuit_fragrance was shy when he said that he himself is good at playing late sonatas and that he has a desire to make Scriabin's late sonatas more popular.
Sakuraphon had the same thoughts, so this collaboration was really fun and fulfilling.


昨日、新宿伊勢丹6F催事場にて大盛況の「サロンドパルファン2022」にて、スクリャービンのソナタ三曲を香水として制作したニュイ さんとのトークショーを行いました。
音と香りの共感覚を持つ調香師さんを探し当て、楽曲のイメージをオリジナルブレンドしたオードパルファムは難解でミステリアスな後期ソナタ作品に耽溺するお供としてとても素晴らしいと思います。

これは私の感想ですが、
「ソナタ第７番白ミサ」は、ハーブ系や上質なエッセンシャルオイルに近く、ルームフレグランスとしても馴染みの良い香り。(収録： Robert Crnman）

「ソナタ第９番黒ミサ」は、敢えてトップノートを除き、ミドルノートが長時間持続する香りで、これは呪術的なフレーズが繰り返される楽曲とシンクロしています。(収録： Samuel Yaffe）

「ソナタ第10番昆虫」は、スクリャービン自身が解説した通り、昆虫、蝶、蛾や、植物たちの全ては太陽で出来ている、と言う自然回帰的な香り。柑橘系の香りと共に、カルダモンのスパイシーな香りが際立つオーガニックなプレンドです。(収録： Katherine Ruth Heyman）

こういうプロダクトは怪しげなものが多いので警戒していたんですが、添付されたブックレットに寄せられたスペシャリストを見ても分かる通り、かなり気合の入った本格的なマニアックなアイテムです。

それは、敢えてCD収録した音源に、固定化される前のスクリャービンの演奏を選んだ事にも表れていると思います。
ラニュイの海老原さんは、ご自身も後期ソナタを弾きこなす腕前で、もっとスクリャービンの後期ソナタがポピュラーなものになる様にとの想いもこもっていると照れながらお話されていました。

Sakuraphonも同じ想いを持っていましたので、今回のコラボレーションは、本当に楽しく充実したものとなりました。

The pianists included in the attached CD produced by Sakuraphon are as follows.
Sakuraphon制作の添付CD収録ピアニストは以下の通りです。

Historical recordings for Scriabin 150th Anniverssery.

Katherine Ruth Heyman (1877-1944)
Sonata No.10, Op.70 "Les Insectes"

Samuel Yaffe (?)
Vers la flammes, Op.72
Sonata No.9, Op.68 "Messe noir"

Xenia Prochorowa (1905-1991)
Etude, Op.42-5

Robert Cornman (1924-2008)
Sonata No.7, Op.64 "Messe blanche"

Alexander Scriabin (1872-1915) piano roll
Desire, Op.57
Poem, Op.32-1
Etude, Op.8-12