Rautavaara's Riverboat

Started by karlhenning, May 01, 2007, 11:03:53 AM

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vandermolen

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 01, 2022, 06:37:11 AM
Rautavaara could never be accused of having a limited view of the numinous or the ethereal, if Angels and Visitations is anything to go by. There are dark and ominous elements to his view of the angelic that are far more in keeping with the majestic and otherworldly Cherubim and Seraphim of Ezekiel and the Old Testament prophets, than are ever found in the chubby cheeked and emasculated art of some Western expectations. This is the smoke and fire of Sinai, rather than the limp and butterfly-winged comfort of modernity.

Fine music which encapsulates a level of mystery, I think!
Most interesting description Danny! I like the sound of the Old Testament Prophets (also to be found in Bernstein's 'Jeremiah Symphony' Bloch's 'Israel Symphony' and, I would argue. at the end of Hilding Rosenberg's Symphony No.2 'Sinfonia Grave') and I don't know that Rautavaara CD.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

foxandpeng

#241
Quote from: vandermolen on May 01, 2022, 10:33:20 PM
Most interesting description Danny! I like the sound of the Old Testament Prophets (also to be found in Bernstein's 'Jeremiah Symphony' Bloch's 'Israel Symphony' and, I would argue. at the end of Hilding Rosenberg's Symphony No.2 'Sinfonia Grave') and I don't know that Rautavaara CD.

Noted with interest! I'll revisit each of these. I have a real love for Rosenberg but it has been ages since I listened to the symphonies. I don't know the Bernstein, but the Bloch I also appreciate. Time to go again 🙂

There is an undoubted departure from predictability and ease in Rautavaara's Angels. I appreciate the recognition of mystery and discomfort.

The Naxos performance with Koivula and the RSNO is also decent, I think. His recordings of the Holmboe Chamber Concertos on Dacapo were ust excellent.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

foxandpeng

Einojuhani Rautavaara
Angel of Dusk
Jean Jacques Kantorow
Tapiola Sinfonietta
BIS


Cross-posted from the listening thread. Ondine have competition for Rautavaara from releases like this, I think. In my opinion, this concerto for double bass and orchestra is very worthwhile. I also like the coupling with #2, because of the sympathy between the pieces.

Rautavaara's view of the angelic consistently leans more toward gravitas and solemnity, than frivolity or flippancy. There is a meditative quality about the work that lends itself to contemplation, and it leads well into the Quasi Grave of the first movement of #2. I know Rautavaara wasn't a man of organised or dogmatic religion, but his exploration of the unearthly in his music is really satisfying.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

relm1

Quote from: foxandpeng on May 05, 2022, 06:43:13 AM
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Angel of Dusk
Jean Jacques Kantorow
Tapiola Sinfonietta
BIS


Cross-posted from the listening thread. Ondine have competition for Rautavaara from releases like this, I think. In my opinion, this concerto for double bass and orchestra is very worthwhile. I also like the coupling with #2, because of the sympathy between the pieces.

Rautavaara's view of the angelic consistently leans more toward gravitas and solemnity, than frivolity or flippancy. There is a meditative quality about the work that lends itself to contemplation, and it leads well into the Quasi Grave of the first movement of #2. I know Rautavaara wasn't a man of organised or dogmatic religion, but his exploration of the unearthly in his music is really satisfying.

Nice!  Will add it to my listening list.

foxandpeng

Quote from: relm1 on May 06, 2022, 04:48:41 AM
Nice!  Will add it to my listening list.

Well worth the time.

Einojuhani Rautavaara
String Quartets 1 & 2
Jean Sibelius Quartet
Ondine


First listen Friday, as I start to think about bringing my dash through Rautavaara to a conclusion. Maybe the Quartets and one more romp through the symphonies (if you can romp through Rautavaara), and then on to something else.

I'm only on the final movement of SQ #1, but how good is this? I have always enjoyed Rautavaara, but listening almost exclusively to him for the last fortnight or so has been outstanding - almost akin to the time I spent last year with the Shostakovich SQs. Immersive listening is definitely a thing.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

relm1

Any thoughts regarding Rautavaara's opera, Rasputin?  Generally, how are his operas?  I have a recording of "The Mine" but haven't heard any other operas by him and think The Mine was an early work from his more experimental (1960's) phase.

mahler10th

Rautavaaras' Symphony 5 'Monologue with Angels'.  The only recorded copy I can get of this is Pommer with Liepzig.  It's a good recording, I like it, but I think there is so much more can be done with it than Pommer gives us.  I have descended unto tearing my garments and gnashing my dentures under a Willow tree at the non-finding of ANY other recording of Rautavaara's 5th AT ALL.  Pommer, it's always the Pommer.  This being GMG, I have to ask - does anyone know of another 5th performance?
What a find that would be.

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: mahler10th on April 16, 2024, 03:42:53 PMRautavaaras' Symphony 5 'Monologue with Angels'.  The only recorded copy I can get of this is Pommer with Liepzig.  It's a good recording, I like it, but I think there is so much more can be done with it than Pommer gives us.  I have descended unto tearing my garments and gnashing my dentures under a Willow tree at the non-finding of ANY other recording of Rautavaara's 5th AT ALL.  Pommer, it's always the Pommer.  This being GMG, I have to ask - does anyone know of another 5th performance?
What a find that would be.
I'm only finding that one listing.  Perhaps other performances on youtube or elsewhere?

PD

Symphonic Addict

Brand new release already available for streaming:

The current annihilation of a people on this planet (you know which one it is) is the most documented and at the same time the most preposterously denied.

foxandpeng

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on March 27, 2025, 10:37:31 AMBrand new release already available for streaming:



Thank you for sharing this!
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Mandryka



Tremendous performance of the three Shakespeare sonnets from Hynninen and Gothoni. A good cycle.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Very much enjoying the Lorca Suite, a recording by Paul Hillier.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

relm1

I'm curious about Rautavaara's fascinating artistic trajectory.  Only one year separates his third and fourth symphonies but they are very different.  Symphony No. 3 (1961) was Brucknerian, tonal, and neo-romantic but Symphony No. 4 "Arabescata" (1962) was serialist and atonal.  It's rare to hear such massive shifts in an artist's output so quickly. 

His No. 5 from over 20 years later is a very, very good symphony with long themes, rich harmonies, and a very wide transformation from start to end while always being reasonably developed.  This is one I need to study much closer.   

How would you characterize Rautavaara's sudden, massive shift from 1961 and 1962?  Perhaps he was always both tonal and atonal? 

CRCulver

Quote from: relm1 on June 30, 2025, 05:21:44 AMI'm curious about Rautavaara's fascinating artistic trajectory.  Only one year separates his third and fourth symphonies but they are very different.  Symphony No. 3 (1961) was Brucknerian, tonal, and neo-romantic but Symphony No. 4 "Arabescata" (1962) was serialist and atonal.  It's rare to hear such massive shifts in an artist's output so quickly.

Rautavaara had already written the more conventionally mid-century-serialist Modificata in 1957, so it's not that he suddenly shifted between the Third and Fourth, but already had those varied stylistic interests.

QuoteHis No. 5 from over 20 years later is a very, very good symphony with long themes, rich harmonies, and a very wide transformation from start to end while always being reasonably developed.  This is one I need to study much closer.

Kalevi Aho wrote a book, Einojuhani Rautavaara as Symphonist (it's in English) that especially praises the Fifth, so you might enjoy that.

relm1

Quote from: CRCulver on June 30, 2025, 07:46:42 AMRautavaara had already written the more conventionally mid-century-serialist Modificata in 1957, so it's not that he suddenly shifted between the Third and Fourth, but already had those varied stylistic interests.

Kalevi Aho wrote a book, Einojuhani Rautavaara as Symphonist (it's in English) that especially praises the Fifth, so you might enjoy that.

That is very interesting!  I'll definitely have to keep an eye out for Aho's book.  Yesterday I listened to No. 6 in my complete traversal of his symphonies.  Another very interesting work and has some similarities with No. 5 which is my favorite so far.

relm1

I have completed my traversal of the symphonies of Rautavaara and very much enjoyed it!  My favorite remains the 5th but there wasn't really a low point.  He was a very good symphonist and could write wonderful long lines, something we rarely get.  They all have moments of deep beauty where I found myself just lost in the music.  Sometimes it's the simple gestures like in the slow movement of Symphony No. 7 (I think his most popular one), a long passage with just the soft, high strings.  It would be tempting to add harmony but none was needed and I really liked that he just let the melodic lines float.  I'm not so familiar with his Symphony No. 8 but thought it was a good retrospective of who he was as an artist.  Part mystical, part traditional, part innovative, part brassy and bold, and part intimate.  I loved the experience of going through his symphonies in order, it was a wonderful journey.

foxandpeng

Quote from: relm1 on July 03, 2025, 05:48:05 AMI have completed my traversal of the symphonies of Rautavaara and very much enjoyed it!  My favorite remains the 5th but there wasn't really a low point.  He was a very good symphonist and could write wonderful long lines, something we rarely get.  They all have moments of deep beauty where I found myself just lost in the music.  Sometimes it's the simple gestures like in the slow movement of Symphony No. 7 (I think his most popular one), a long passage with just the soft, high strings.  It would be tempting to add harmony but none was needed and I really liked that he just let the melodic lines float.  I'm not so familiar with his Symphony No. 8 but thought it was a good retrospective of who he was as an artist.  Part mystical, part traditional, part innovative, part brassy and bold, and part intimate.  I loved the experience of going through his symphonies in order, it was a wonderful journey.

Lovely to read this. Thank you for sharing :)
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

Spotted Horses

Quote from: relm1 on July 03, 2025, 05:48:05 AMI have completed my traversal of the symphonies of Rautavaara and very much enjoyed it!  My favorite remains the 5th but there wasn't really a low point.  He was a very good symphonist and could write wonderful long lines, something we rarely get.  They all have moments of deep beauty where I found myself just lost in the music.  Sometimes it's the simple gestures like in the slow movement of Symphony No. 7 (I think his most popular one), a long passage with just the soft, high strings.  It would be tempting to add harmony but none was needed and I really liked that he just let the melodic lines float.  I'm not so familiar with his Symphony No. 8 but thought it was a good retrospective of who he was as an artist.  Part mystical, part traditional, part innovative, part brassy and bold, and part intimate.  I loved the experience of going through his symphonies in order, it was a wonderful journey.

I've listened to some Rautavaara's music in the past and been impressed. I think I should make an effort to listen to all of the major works.

So much music, so little time.
Formerly Scarpia (Scarps), Baron Scarpia, Ghost of Baron Scarpia, Varner, Ratliff, Parsifal, perhaps others.