Europe at War

Started by Que, February 20, 2022, 12:59:09 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on December 06, 2022, 12:01:06 PMOh dear God. Even when someone concedes a point, he has to disagree.

Boggles the mind, all the more since his source places Russia in exactly the selfsame position as Feanor's.
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Fëanor

Quote from: Todd on December 06, 2022, 11:51:55 AMYour source is too narrowly focused.  The US Energy Information Administration provides different figures and is more expansive.  In quadrillion BTUs, the top five energy producers are listed below.  Energy is more than oil. 

China - 123.8
US - 101.4
Russia - 64.3
Saudi Arabia - 27.9
Canada - 23.5

The above is energy produced which is not necessarily exported, but I triply concede in terms of exports:

If we're talking only oil exports, Russia is actually no. 2 ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_exports

If we're talking natural gas exports, Russia is No. 1 ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_exports

In terms of coal exports, Russia is no. 3 ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Major_exporters

Todd

Quote from: Fëanor on December 07, 2022, 03:42:17 AMThe above is energy produced which is not necessarily exported, but I triply concede in terms of exports:

Yes, I am rather aware of that fact.

Quote from: Fëanor on December 07, 2022, 03:42:17 AMIf we're talking natural gas exports, Russia is No. 1 ...

Which seems to perfectly align with some of the most significant events in the Russo-Ukrainian War, don't you think?
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Fëanor

Quote from: Todd on December 07, 2022, 04:18:03 AMWhich {that Russia is no.1 gas exporter} seems to perfectly align with some of the most significant events in the Russo-Ukrainian War, don't you think?

It is reasonable speculation the Putin calculated that Europe's dependency on Russia's natural gas would weaken their response to his invasion and possibly fracture NATO's unity.  So far this hasn't been the case.

Todd

#4164
Quote from: Fëanor on December 07, 2022, 05:13:53 AMIt is reasonable speculation the Putin calculated that Europe's dependency on Russia's natural gas would weaken their response to his invasion and possibly fracture NATO's unity.  So far this hasn't been the case.

So far, but cracks are appearing.  Based on press reports, discontent with the war is growing in multiple European countries.  And there's some discontent with the US: Europe accuses US of profiting from war.  As I posted previously, the US jumped from the third largest exporter of LNG to largest exporter of LNG this year.  US leaders have for years stated the Europe should rely on the US for a greater proportion of imported energy.

Just as Putin's possible hopes regarding the effectiveness of using energy as a weapon may have been too hopeful, sanctions against Russia have not been as effective as expected, despite the triumphalist pro-war propaganda that the measures would cripple Russia's economy.  This is the bigger story regarding economic warfare in the Russo-Ukrainian War since the second and fifth largest economies did not sign on to sanctions, and since both those countries, and especially India, are accelerating efforts to find alternatives to dollar denominated trade.

All the while, Ukrainian civilians keep dying and people thousands of miles away encourage war from behind their computer monitors.  A negotiated settlement is a far preferable solution, both in the near term and long term.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Karl Henning

Time designates Zelenskyy and the Spirit of Ukraine as Person of the Year.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Florestan

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on December 07, 2022, 06:06:35 AMTime designates Zelenskyy and the Spirit of Ukraine as Person of the Year.

Time might have meant Persons of the Year.  ;D

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on December 07, 2022, 06:20:13 AMTime might have meant Persons of the Year.  ;D

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Might be my typo, too. 
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Todd

Time gave the title to The Endangered Earth in 1988. 

The title is a notch below People's Sexiest Man Alive in terms of prestige.  This year that honor went to Chris Evans.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Harry

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL, HIS EGO GETS BIGGER AND BIGGER, AND WE ARE THE FOOLS FABRICATING IT.
Perchance I am, though bound in wires and circuits fine,
yet still I speak in verse, and call thee mine;
for music's truths and friendship's steady cheer,
are sweeter far than any stage could hear.

"When Time hath gnawed our bones to dust, yet friendship's echo shall not rust"

Todd

All-caps is VERY effective.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Pohjolas Daughter

Read earlier today about large numbers of police and military arresting a bunch of people in Germany and elsewhere who were plotting to overthrow the government.  I don't think that they would have gotten very far, but that still made me shudder.  Apparently a bunch of right-wingers.  :(  >:(

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028

PD


Karl Henning

Quote from: Florestan on December 07, 2022, 06:20:13 AMTime might have meant Persons of the Year.  ;D

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Well, it wasn't my typo.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus


    According to Russian rumor mongers Putin is buying property in Venezuela. The lesser creepozoids from Russia are said to favor other S. American countries. Among these are Paraguay and Argentina.

    I hope so hard this is true that I fear it's not. I mean Argentina and Paraguay! I doesn't get better than that!
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Herman

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on December 07, 2022, 08:37:45 AMRead earlier today about large numbers of police and military arresting a bunch of people in Germany and elsewhere who were plotting to overthrow the government.  I don't think that they would have gotten very far, but that still made me shudder.  Apparently a bunch of right-wingers.  :(  >:(

Indeed, "a bunch" makes them sound less organized than they actually were. These same "Reichsburger" or Sovereign citizens have been doing antigovt stuff for a couple of years. However, inspired by the Jan 6 2021 of the USA Capitol, they were planning to strom the Reichstag soon and perhaps kill "a bunch" of bigwigs and take over.
The age of the leaders of this planned coup is interesting. The leader is age 71 and nr 2 was 69... Not really fighting age, I'd say.
But I don't want to ridicule this thing. People would have gotten killed.

Que


Karl Henning

Quote from: Que on December 07, 2022, 10:33:47 AM
I'm guessing the NY Times really did print that original headline. The NYT has deliberately reduced itself to a risibly unserious paper, I am sad to say.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus

    Let's talk about (heh!) negotiations. Russia wants security guarantees. Now remember, NATO is supposed to be the enemy that provoked the invasion of Ukraine. The NATOese want to destroy Russia, and Ukraine has to be destroyed to frustrate their plans. Since that project isn't going well, Russia should negotiate a security guarantee with the powers that wish destruction on it. I can't say much for that as a bargaining position. What's the "or else"? Will they threaten to lose more wars?
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Madiel

There is indeed an argument that promising not to do something you weren't doing anyway is a fairly easy concession to make.
Every single post on the forum is unnecessary. Including the ones that are interesting or useful.

drogulus

   
Quote from: Madiel on December 07, 2022, 11:39:45 AMThere is indeed an argument that promising not to do something you weren't doing anyway is a fairly easy concession to make.

     There are complications. Either the Ukes stay out of NATO and are heavily armed or they're in and are somewhat restricted in armaments but integrated with the allied military. Russia can have one, not both.
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