Johann Strauss Sohn (1825-1899)

[Florestan]

Someone said here (I don't remember in which thread anymore) that playing Strauss family pieces in a concert hall during Neujahrskonzert is a bad idea, as this isn't the kind of music that lends itself to it.

That was probably me. Listening to the Strauss family music in a stiff and still manner is what I call "the Brucknerization of the Strausses" which in my book is an abomination. Andre Rieu's concerts are much more akin to the original spirit of that music, which was intended for real dancing and genuine merriment. 

That being said, I enjoy the New Year Concert of the VP as much as anyone else.

[Pizzicato-Polka]

Andre Rieu's concerts are much more akin to the original spirit of that music, which was intended for real dancing and genuine merriment. 

That being said, I enjoy the New Year Concert of the VP as much as anyone else.

I see, I just find that both events are (or rather can be) people having fun, just in much different ways. I mean, I definitely am listening to classical music for enjoyment, and I'm having utmost fun when I have an occasion to sit stiffly    in an opera/concert hall. If in the end people enjoy themselves and the music, there's nothing abominable about it, imo. But to each their own! And of course I can understand why you think so when sometimes the camera at a Neujahrskonzert will pan to a clearly bored spectator, haha! But I'd hope these are the minority.

[Florestan]

Don't know where else to post it.

Vienna Philharmonic New Year 2023 Concert

The program is heavily dominated by Josef Strauss, probably because this year he'd have turned 195. 

Also, good to see Ziehrer, Helmesberger, Jr. and Franz von Suppe on the list. An exciting program which should be fun to hear and watch, not least because of the genial and unassuming Welser-Moest's conducting style.

[Lisztianwagner]

Don't know where else to post it.

Vienna Philharmonic New Year 2023 Concert

The program is heavily dominated by Josef Strauss, probably because this year he'd have turned 195. 

Also, good to see Ziehrer, Helmesberger, Jr. and Franz von Suppe on the list. An exciting program which should be fun to hear and watch, not least because of the genial and unassuming Welser-Moest's conducting style.

Indeed, very Josef Strauss-centric! Apart from the Aquarellen-Walzer, they have chosen all new pieces never performed before at the New Year's Concert; there will be certainly a lot of fun, I'm looking forward to watching it!

[Florestan]

Indeed, very Josef Strauss-centric!

Not a bad thing, actually. I think musically he was at least on a par with his more famous brother Johann II and, in contrast to the latter, he was a polymath.

He received training as an engineer, and worked for the city of Vienna as an engineer and designer. He designed a horse-drawn revolving brush street-sweeping vehicle and published two textbooks on mathematical subjects.[1] Strauss had talents as an artist, painter, poet, dramatist, singer, composer and inventor.[2]

Not many composers can boast such a broad list of extra-musical interests and achievements.

[Albion]

Don't know where else to post it.

Vienna Philharmonic New Year 2023 Concert

The program is heavily dominated by Josef Strauss, probably because this year he'd have turned 195. 

Also, good to see Ziehrer, Helmesberger, Jr. and Franz von Suppe on the list. An exciting program which should be fun to hear and watch, not least because of the genial and unassuming Welser-Moest's conducting style.

Thanks for this, it's great to see Josef dominating and Eduard represented by more than the usual solitary contribution but why, oh why they don't programme a couple of his lovely waltzes I have no idea - enough have been recorded now to dispel the myth that he was a talentless irrelevance: I've got close on 90 of his works and the best of them would grace any New Year concert...

[Jo498]

This is the most uncommon NYD programme I have ever seen. I think I have heard (or even heard of) only two pieces, "Aquarellen" and probably the Gypsy Baron Quadrille (not quite sure, there are several potpourri quadrilles). "Daring" might be misleading, but I guess their might be a few watchers/audience not recognizing a piece before the encores.

[Florestan]

Thanks for this, it's great to see Josef dominating and Eduard represented by more than the usual solitary contribution but why, oh why they don't programme a couple of his lovely waltzes I have no idea - enough have been recorded now to dispel the myth that he was a talentless irrelevance: I've got close on 90 of his works and the best of them would grace any New Year concert...

Marco Polo/Naxos recorded and released the complete works of Johann I, Johann II and Josef (I have them all). Why they didn't do the same with Eduard is beyond me. The market would have been the same, ie quite large methinks.

[Albion]

Regarding the opera and operettas, this completely passed me by (released in 2021) - filling a major gap in the discography: Waldmeister (1895) on Naxos! What a superb score this is (with a stunning main waltz), greatly admired by Brahms and Hanslick. So, there are now only a few gaps* to fill -

Indigo (1871)*
Der Karneval in Rom (1873) - CPO 777405-2
Der Fledermaus (1874) - take your pick
Cagliostro in Wien (1875)*
Prinz Methusalem (1877) - CPO 777747-2
Blindekuh (1878) - Naxos 8.660434-35
Das Spitzentuch der Konigin (1880) - CPO 777406-2
Der Lustige Krieg (1881) - ORF Production CD240
Eine Nacht in Venedig (1883) several, using different versions including the revision by Korngold
Der Zigeunerbaron (1885) - take your pick
Simplicius (1887) - EMI 0724355700926
Ritter Pasman (1892) - Orfeo C200062
Furstin Ninetta (1893)- Naxos 8.660227-28
Jabuka (1894) - Naxos 8.660216-17
Waldmeister (1895) - Naxos 8.660489-90
Die Gottin der Vernunft (1897) - Naxos 8.660280-81

When I first started collecting Johann Strauss over 40 years ago I would never have dreamt that we would have nearly all of the stage-works commercially recorded!

 

[Jo498]

There are a bunch of Polkas for events of the Technical University of Vienna (Polytechnikum) with titles like Elektromagnetische Polka etc.
Josef was supposed to be the brother with a "real job" (civil engineer) but then drafted back into the family music business; in the end probably overworking himself to an unfortunate early death.

[Albion]

Marco Polo/Naxos recorded and released the complete works of Johann I, Johann II and Josef (I have them all). Why they didn't do the same with Eduard is beyond me. The market would have been the same, ie quite large methinks.

Yep, I've got all those lined up on the shelves as well. However, they did do two splendid discs of Eduard under John Georgiadis and five of Ziehrer - but anybody who loves this repertoire always wants more...

[Lisztianwagner]

This is the most uncommon NYD programme I have ever seen. I think I have heard (or even heard of) only two pieces, "Aquarellen" and probably the Gypsy Baron Quadrille (not quite sure, there are several potpourri quadrilles).

The Zigeunerbaron-Quadrille has never been performed at the Vienna New Year's Concert, this is going to be the first time; from that operetta, just the ouverture and Einzugsmarsch have already been played.

[Florestan]

they did do two splendid discs of Eduard under John Georgiadis and five of Ziehrer

I missed the Eduard, will look for them.

I have about 10 discs (I think) of Ziehrer, not on Naxos but on an Austrian label (I think) played by an Austrian dedicated orchestra conducted by one Hans Schadenbauer, all discs arranged thematically. For instance:



The dances and marches are interspersed with vocal numbers from his operettas. Speaking of which, I have also this gem:



I'm glad to encounter a fellow enthusiast for such music. 

[Florestan]

The Danish Hans-Christian Lumbye is excellent too.

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26195.msg1486295.html#msg1486295

[Albion]

The Zigeunerbaron-Quadrille has never been performed at the Vienna New Year's Concert, this is going to be the first time; from that operetta, just the ouverture and Einzugsmarsch have already been played.

And an excellent quadrille it is too! I just hope that the conductor doesn't bugger around with the tempos. A quadrille should basically keep more or less the same pulse whether it's 2/4 or 6/8 (as should a set of lancers) - I've heard some truly abominable renditions replete with rits and ridiculous accelerandos (several of these figure on the Marco Polo Johann Strauss II Edition, less so on the Johann I and Josef Editions). Don't play around with the music and try to impose your idiosyncracies on music that does not need it! One of the worst renditions I've ever heard was Eduard's Carmen Quadrille, Op.134 under Mariss Jansons at a New Year concert in 2012 - just an utter travesty. It just sped up, slowed down, sped up, lurched, sped up, slowed down, lurched and then careered to the finish. Bloody crap.

Regarding Eduard, alright, he incinerated the entire Strauss orchestral archive towards the end of his life (paranoid that it would be rifled after his death), leading to the loss of works by his father, himself and his brothers but he was a damn fine composer in his own right. Besides the two excellent volumes on Marco Polo, it is now possible to listen to many scores including:

La belle Helene - Quadrille, Op.14 (1865)
Bahn frei! - Quick polka, Op.45 (1869)
Mit Dampf - Quick polka, Op.70 (1870)
Auf und davon - Quick polka, Op.73 (1871)
Fesche Geister - Waltz, Op.75 (1871)
Doctrinen - Waltz, Op.79 (1872)
Ball-Promessen - Waltz, Op.82 (1872)
Amors Gruss - French polka, Op.83 (1872)
Myrthen-Strausschen - Waltz, Op.87 (1872)
Manuscripte - Waltz, Op.90 (1872)
Interpretationen - Waltz, Op.97 (1873)
Colombine - Polka mazurka, Op.98 (1872)
Madchenlaune - Polka mazurka, Op.99 (1873)
Studenten-Ball-Tanze - Waltz, Op.101 (1873)
Wo Man Lecht und Lebt - Quick polka, Op.108 (1873)
Ohne Aufenthalt - Quick polka, Op.112 (1874)
Die Abonnenten - Waltz, Op.116 (1874)
Weyprecht-Payer - March, Op.120 (1874)
Unter der Enns - Quick polka, Op.121 (1874)
Alpenrose - Polka mazurka, Op.127 (1874)
Knall und Fall - Quick polka, op.132 (1876)
Carmen - Quadrille, Op.134 (1876)
Verdicte - Waltz, Op.137 (1876)
Souvenir de Bade - Quick polka, Op.146 (1876)
Fatiniza - Waltz, Op.147 (1876)
Das Leben ist doch schon - Waltz, Op.150 (1876)
Treuliebchen - French polka, Op.152 (1877)
Schneesternchen - French polka, Op.157 (1877)
Saat und Ernte - Quick polka, Op.159 (1877)
Leuchtkaferln - Waltz, Op.161 (1877)
Opern-Soiree - French polka, Op.162 (1877)
Telephon - French polka, Op.165 (1878)
Reiselust - French polka, Op.166 (1878)
Ausser Rand und Band - Quick polka, Op.168 (1878)
Wien uber alles! - Quick polka, Op.172 (1878)
Mit der Stromung - French polka, Op.174 (1879)
Lustfahrten - Waltz, Op.177 (1879)
Boccacio - Quadrille, Op.180 (1879)
Feuerfunken - Waltz, Op.185 (1880)
Hectograph - Quick polka, Op.186 (1880)
Glockensignale - Waltz, Op.198 (1881)
Schleier und Krone - Waltz, Op.200 (1881)
Faschingsbrief - French polka, Op.203 (1882)
Luftig und Duftig - Quick polka, Op.206 (1882)
Jugendfeuer - Quick polka, Op.210 (1882)
Osterreichs Volker-Treue - March, Op.211 (1882)
Chere amie - French polka, Op.223 (1884)
Mit Vergnugen - Quick polka, Op.228 (1884)
Ohne Bremse - Quick polka, Op.238 (1886)
Um die Wette - Quick polka, Op.241 (1885)
Greeting Waltz on English Airs (1885)
Blauauglein - French polka, Op.254 (1887)
Fur lustige Leut - Waltz, Op.255 (1887)
Myrthenzauber - Waltz, Op.272 (1890)
Electrisch - Quick polka (1895)

[Lisztianwagner]

Not a bad thing, actually. I think musically he was at least on a par with his more famous brother Johann II and, in contrast to the latter, he was a polymath.

Not many composers can boast such a broad list of extra-musical interests and achievements.

Yes, it is not a bad thing at all; his works are quite poetical and inspired, introspective and mildly melancholic, rather opposite to the vivid, colourful and explosive pieces of his brother Johann. I think Johann Strauss was able to express much poetry and imagination in his waltzes, polkas, etc. too, making them beautifully evocative and far from simple dancing music, but in a different way from Josef Strauss, whose creations sound more tormented (at least for how tormented a waltz or a polka can be), they sound having a brighter component.

[Florestan]

And an excellent quadrille it is too! I just hope that the conductor doesn't bugger around with the tempos. A quarille should basically keep more or less the same pulse whether it's 2/4 or 6/8 - I've heard some truly abominable renditions replete with rits and ridiculous accelerandos (several of these figure on the Marco Polo Johann Strauss II Edition, less so on the Johann I and Josef Editions). Don't play around with the music and try to impose your idiosyncracies on music that does not need it! One of the worst renditions I've ever heard was Eduard's Carmen Quadrille, Op.134 under Mariss Jansons at a New Year concert in 2012 - just an utter travesty. I just sped up, slowed down, sped up, lurched, sped up, slowed down, lurched and then careered to the finish. Bloody crap.

This is actually a good example of what I call "the Brucknerization of the Strausses". I mean, this music was never meant to be performed in a concert hall for reverential, stiff-and-still, formally dressed audience. This is dance music, to have fun with and be entertained by; merriment music to be enjoyed by foot tapping and hand clapping, while imbibing, chatting and flirting. In this respect the VPO New Year Concert is a big travesty. Andre Rieu's concerts are much more akin to what one could have experienced at a Johann Strauss concert, either father or son, not least the violin conducting.

[Florestan]

his works are quite poetical and inspired, introspective and mildly melancholic

Agreed, but see my post above. They are still dance and merriment music; let's not read too much Bruckner into them. 

[Albion]

I missed the Eduard, will look for them.

I have about 10 discs (I think) of Ziehrer, not on Naxos but on an Austrian label (I think) played by an Austrian dedicated orchestra conducted by one Hans Schadenbauer, all discs arranged thematically. For instance:



The dances and marches are interspersed with vocal numbers from his operettas. Speaking of which, I have also this gem:



I'm glad to encounter a fellow enthusiast for such music. 

The two Marco Polo discs of Eduard are splendid as are the items on the three Chandos "Vienna Premiere" volumes. As to Ziehrer, I'd love to start collecting this series but money and shelf space are a problem. I've got pretty much what I want from the Marco Polo discs and the magnificent "Wiener Musik" under Robert Stolz which I'm sure that you have: in the 1970s I treasured the beautiful and luxuriously packaged original four boxes of LPs (clicks, jumps, varying pitch and all) but I was pleased to see the recordings reincarnated on twelve CDs (first on Eurodisc and now on RCA)...

[Florestan]

the magnificent "Wiener Musik" under Robert Stolz which I'm sure that you have

If you mean this, then yes, I have it.




Btw, did you notice that Ziehrer is  misspelled as Zierer?