Johann Strauss Sohn (1825-1899)

[Albion]

This is actually a good example of what I call "the Brucknerization of the Strausses". I mean, this music was never meant to be performed in a concert hall for reverential, stiff-and-still, formally dressed audience. This is dance music, to have fun with and be entertained by; merriment music to be enjoyed by foot tapping and hand clapping, while imbibing, chatting and flirting. In this respect the VPO New Year Concert is a big travesty. Andre Rieu's concerts are much more akin to what one could have experienced at a Johann Strauss concert, either father or son, not least the violin conducting.

I like my dance music played straight. You can get away with a certain amount of rubato in the waltzes and even polka mazurkas but for French polkas, quick polkas, galops and quadrilles you just let the music basically play itself and don't intervene.

Here is a parallel article that I wrote on Sullivan -

https://www.gsarchive.net/articles/arrangements/dance_music.html



Yes, the Eurodisc LPs/ CDs got Ziehrer's name right, RCA were obviously less diligent...

 

[Florestan]

Here is a parallel article that I wrote on Sullivan -

https://www.gsarchive.net/articles/arrangements/dance_music.html

Saved for later, more attentive reading. Thanks.

[Albion]

It's a pity that the two BASF 1970s double-LP sets conducted by Stolz "Johann Strauss: Come to Ball" and "Johann Strauss in St Petersburg" have not been reissued (I don't know who holds the rights, or indeed if there is any interest in reissuing them now that all the repertoire has been recorded by Marco Polo). At the time these LPs covered a whole range of previously-unrecorded works and were extremely well-played. Stolz in his 90s was truly amazing...

[Lisztianwagner]

Agreed, but see my post above. They are still dance and merriment music; let's not read too much Bruckner into them. 

Well, of course they are light-hearted tone music and they can't have all the expressive depth, the intensity and the poetical inwardness of the so called 'serious music', like symphonies for example; but the Strausses' music, especially Johann II's and Josef's, has much more dignity than simple dance music; in fact, besides the cheerful element, they can express great beauty, delicacy, as well as they can be immersive and enchantigly depicting when needed, at least in my opinion.
I share Wagner's opinion on this matter, but you'll provably disagree with that, Andrei.

[Florestan]

the Strausses' music, especially Johann II's and Josef's, has much more dignity than simple dance music; in fact, besides the cheerful element, they can express great beauty, delicacy, as well as they can be immersive and enchantigly depicting when needed, at least in my opinion.
I share Wagner's opinion on this matter, but you'll provably disagree with that, Andrei.

No, I fully agree with you, Ilaria, and not only about the Strausses --- and if this is what Wagner thought, too, then good for him. 

[Albion]

Although I have all the Marco Polo Strauss and Ziehrer discs (plus Waldteufel) I'm constantly drawn back to Robert Stolz's incredible 12 CD set of "Wiener Musik", or whatever it's called now. This has to be one of the most intelligently-programmed collections of all time (just as it was on LP): arranged chronologically by composer, arranged for each composer in opus number order. Alright, he tarts up a couple of pieces here and there (such as the harp in Johann II's "Sinngedichte", Op.1) but it's never unidiomatic and is always there to serve the music. When is the next time I will listen to the complete works of Johann I, Johann II or Josef? Probably in the afterlife, but at least I know that they are bending my shelves. Dave Hurwirz strongly recommended this set, with very good reason...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrEc2Fhe9X4

 

[Albion]

It's a pity that the two BASF 1970s double-LP sets conducted by Stolz "Johann Strauss: Come to Ball" and "Johann Strauss in St Petersburg" have not been reissued (I don't know who holds the rights, or indeed if there is any interest in reissuing them now that all the repertoire has been recorded by Marco Polo). At the time these LPs covered a whole range of previously-unrecorded works and were extremely well-played. Stolz in his 90s was truly amazing...

I learn that these recordings are now with Universal: why the hell don't they do anything with them? They are (or would be) very competitive for anyone wishing to supplement their Stolz "Wiener Musik" box...

 

[Albion]

Geering up for the 2023 New Year's Day Vienna concert with it's Josef Strauss spectacular. I sincerely hope that Welser-Most doesn't muck it up by trying to intervene in the music. Of course, the whole idea of such a straight-laced concert in the "Golden Hall" is totally bloody ridiculous (yep, let's all clap out of time to the "Radetzky March" whilst sitting there like embalmed otters). This year shows serious enterprise in repertoire, which is very welcome indeed: my Dog, there's certainly plenty to choose from - they've not even scraped the surface of truly wonderful stuff by all the Strauss dynasty (including Eduard and Eduard II), Ziehrer, etc. I wish that they would include some Waldteufel, Millocker, Suppe, Komzak and cast their nets wider because all of this wonderful stuff is out there to be given to a bigger audience...

[Florestan]

I wish that they would include some Waldteufel, Millocker, Suppe, Komzak

Suppe is in the program, actually.

[Lisztianwagner]

Geering up for the 2023 New Year's Day Vienna concert with it's Josef Strauss spectacular. I sincerely hope that Welser-Most doesn't muck it up by trying to intervene in the music. Of course, the whole idea of such a straight-laced concert in the "Golden Hall" is totally bloody ridiculous (yep, let's all clap out of time to the "Radetzky March" whilst sitting there like embalmed otters). This year shows serious enterprise in repertoire, which is very welcome indeed: my Dog, there's certainly plenty to choose from - they've not even scraped the surface of truly wonderful stuff by all the Strauss dynasty (including Eduard and Eduard II), Ziehrer, etc. I wish that they would include some Waldteufel, Millocker, Suppe, Komzak and cast their nets wider because all of this wonderful stuff is out there to be given to a bigger audience...

I sincerely hope that Welser-Most will be able to bring out the right energy and emotions from that music, because, when I saw him conducting the Neujharskozert in 2011 and 2013, he seemed a rather standard conductor, fine, but nothing more.
At least this time, about Josef Strauss, there's a step forward, since they haven't restricted themselves to perform the same few waltzes or polka-mazurkas, they have chosen a more varied repertoire with pieces never played before, apart from Aquarellen-Walzer; but I agree about Eduard Strauss, his music doesn't appear in the program of the Neujharskonzert very often, and when it does, it is always with one or two schnell-polkas.

[Albion]

Suppe is in the program, actually.

Yes, the overture to Isabella is a very welcome inclusion! Not long to go now until we get to hear what Franz Welser-Möst makes of a whole heap of Josef Strauss. I've not been overly impressed with his dance music performances and his EMI Simplicius was a bit of a cold fish (not because of the music). I wish that one year they would give similar prominence to Eduard (taking a temporary break from Bax, Bowen and Moeran and Dog alone knows what else at the moment I'm now onto a "Edi" session) but it still looks like a nice and enterprising programme however you look at it. I generally switch off at the point that The Blue Danube and Radetzky March appear on the horizon and the suits start to swoon and clap out of time - just drop both of them and end with a quick polka or one of Johann II's less well known marches such as the Großfürsten Marsch, Op.107 which is great fun in a jaunty 6/8 (most of Josef's and several of Eduard's sound more designed for the ballet than the parade ground)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5qKE-kU_Co

 

[Lisztianwagner]

What do you think about the Vienna New Year's Concert 2023 then? I liked it very much, it was an inspiring, bright and cheerful performance. Welser-Möst is a conductor who doesn't enthuse me particularly, personally speaking I think, for example, Jansons and Pretre had more involving styles; but he did very fine anyway, all the pieces included in the program were played excellently, with liveliness, but also elegance and perceivable glimpses of poetry, maybe because of the abundance of Josef Strauss.

[Albion]

What do you think about the Vienna New Year's Concert 2023 then? I liked it very much, it was an inspiring, bright and cheerful performance. Welser-Möst is a conductor who doesn't enthuse me particularly, personally speaking I think, for example, Jansons and Pretre had more involving styles; but he did very fine anyway, all the pieces included in the program were played excellently, with liveliness, but also elegance and perceivable glimpses of poetry, maybe because of the abundance of Josef Strauss.

I thought it was splendid overall, and the inclusion of so many novelties made for a really interesting programme: I hope that this policy continues with future conductors prepared to take on "unknown" works. Josef's Allegro Fantastique Orchestral Fantasy was fascinating (was it included in the Marco Polo series? I can't find it without clambering over piles of precarious CDs). The Zigeunerbaron Quadrille suffered from the usual pulling around with tempos. Otherwise I was pleasantly surprised by the warmth of Welser-Most's performances, a big thumbs up...

 

[Jo498]

The quadrille is a rather silly piece, most NYD concerts are bound to have some (the ouverture, or Schatzwalzer, or just the Einzugsmarsch would have been much better, but they are of course staples of NYDC). I had to do some meal preparation, so was not always paying full attention, but I also liked it overall quite a bit. That Allegro fantastique deserved to be as known as hungarian rhapsodies or similar pieces and the first? waltz of the program (Heldengedichte) was stunning and should be as well known as Aquarellen or Dynamiden. "Dorfschwalben" is better than "Zeiserln", so I understand that latter was forgotten. But it will probably be the first concert in years I'll be getting the recording of, if only for "Heldengedichte".

[Lisztianwagner]

I thought it was splendid overall, and the inclusion of so many novelties made for a really interesting programme: I hope that this policy continues with future conductors prepared to take on "unknown" works. Josef's Allegro Fantastique Orchestral Fantasy was fascinating (was it included in the Marco Polo series? I can't find it without clambering over piles of precarious CDs). The Zigeunerbaron Quadrille suffered from the usual pulling around with tempos. Otherwise I was pleasantly surprised by the warmth of Welser-Most's performances, a big thumbs up...

 

I agree, he did a better performance than those ones in 2011 and 2013. I appreciated he didn't exaggerate with the rubato in Die Zeisserln and Perlen der Liebe, and the choice of so many premieres was very enchanting; thumb up from me too.
I don't think Allegro Fantastique has been included in the Marco Polo series, I haven't seen it.

[Florestan]

Josef's Allegro Fantastique Orchestral Fantasy was fascinating

That Allegro fantastique deserved to be as known as hungarian rhapsodies or similar pieces and the first? waltz of the program (Heldengedichte) was stunning

Yes to both.

[Albion]

I agree, he did a better performance than those ones in 2011 and 2013. I appreciated he didn't exaggerate with the rubato in Die Zeisserln and Perlen der Liebe, and the choice of so many premieres was very enchanting; thumb up from me too.
I don't think Allegro Fantastique has been included in the Marco Polo series, I haven't seen it.

Thanks, I didn't recall it figuring in the 26 volumes: so that saves me being buried under a pile of cascading CDs...

 

[Florestan]

I absolutely loved the choral piece as well. Those boys and girls were superb and to watch their very different but equally expressive countenances while singing was a delight.

The ballet sequences were enjoyable too.

Big kudos to Mr. Welser-Moest for assembling an unusually interesting program (presented with elegance and cheerfulness). I hope he will be a trendsetter in this respect.

[Lisztianwagner]

Thanks, I didn't recall it figuring in the 26 volumes: so that saves me being buried under a pile of cascading CDs...

 

You're welcome. 

I absolutely loved the choral piece as well. Those boys and girls were superb and to watch their very different but equally expressive countenances while singing was a delight.

The ballet sequences were enjoyable too.

Big kudos to Mr. Welser-Moest for assembling an unusually interesting program (presented with elegance and cheerfulness). I hope he will be a trendsetter in this respect.

Agreed, the choral part fits surprisingly well to the piece; in my opinion, Strausses polkas usually are better without the chorus and there are few exceptions (Feuerfest-polka, for example) , but in Heiterer Muth this inclusion sounded very beautiful and delightful. Same speech about the ballet sequences, extremely charming.
The conductor of the next Neujahrskonzert is Christian Thielemann, let's see what he will pull out of the hat.

[Florestan]

The conductor of the next Neujahrskonzert is Christian Thielemann, let's see what he will pull out of the hat.

A mostly Eduard program, perhaps? That would be nice.