Europe at War

Started by Que, February 20, 2022, 12:59:09 AM

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Florestan

#4940
January 20, 2023, 11:06:49 PM
Quote from: Madiel on January 20, 2023, 03:05:29 PMhow did Beethoven lose his van?

The Russians ran out of transporters and took it from him.  ;D
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Madiel

#4941
January 21, 2023, 12:02:15 AM
...and the circle is complete.
Every single post on the forum is unnecessary. Including the ones that are interesting or useful.

Que

#4942
January 21, 2023, 12:30:16 AM Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 12:59:54 AM by Que
The whole German "tank saga" is turning more embarrassing by the day...  ::)
With social democratic chancellor Scholz changing the narrative continuously. Meanwhile being in a coalition with parties that are in favour of sending, or at least allowing other countries to send Leopard 2 tanks.

Is Scholz prepared to have Germany's position in Europe and vis à vis the US diminished, the future relationship with neighbour Poland and the Baltics damaged, and possibly a domestic political crisis?


Germany signals it hasn't ruled out sending Leopard tanks to Ukraine

Why were these tanks built anyway, if not to defend Europe?

Que

#4943
January 21, 2023, 01:09:47 AM

prémont

#4944
January 21, 2023, 01:25:40 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 20, 2023, 01:03:35 PMWell, according to my Dutch lady teacher of Dutch, Van is pronounced approximately as the English Vaughn, which is quite far from fan.

My main point was, that the "v" is pronounced "f" , but maybe the German pronunciation of "van" is closer to "fan".

This is not a linguistic war, only some peaceful negotiation.
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Madiel

#4945
January 21, 2023, 02:18:03 AM Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 02:19:53 AM by Madiel
Quote from: premont on January 21, 2023, 01:25:40 AMMy main point was, that the "v" is pronounced "f" , but maybe the German pronunciation of "van" is closer to "fan".

This is not a linguistic war, only some peaceful negotiation.

German V is often pronounced like English F.  Including in both "von" and, based on this article, in names of Dutch origin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_v_in_German
Every single post on the forum is unnecessary. Including the ones that are interesting or useful.

Florestan

#4946
January 21, 2023, 02:46:32 AM
Quote from: premont on January 21, 2023, 01:25:40 AMMy main point was, that the "v" is pronounced "f"

In German. In Dutch it's not so clear cut. I've heard Dutch people (including my teacher of Dutch) pronouncing it "v".


QuoteThis is not a linguistic war, only some peaceful negotiation.

Quite so.
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

prémont

#4947
January 21, 2023, 02:57:06 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 21, 2023, 02:46:32 AMIn Dutch it's not so clear cut.

Maybe it's not pronounced "f" as a general rule, but never-the-less very commonly.
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Florestan

#4948
January 21, 2023, 03:44:35 AM Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 03:46:25 AM by Florestan
Quote from: premont on January 21, 2023, 02:57:06 AMMaybe it's not pronounced "f" as a general rule, but never-the-less very commonly.

In my experience, having lived in The Netherlands for a year and having taken courses in Dutch and having watched Dutch TV, the pronunciation of "v" as "f" is indeed common but then again so is its pronunciation as "v", and I'd say that on TV it's more common as "v". For instance, vanavond means tonight and on TV they always pronounced it vonavond, with v and the first a turned into o.

@Que, please, help us settle the matter!  :)
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Todd

#4949
January 21, 2023, 04:52:52 AM
Quote from: Que on January 21, 2023, 12:30:16 AMThe whole German "tank saga" is turning more embarrassing by the day...  ::)

Germans are showing restraint and are considering their interests.  This is a very positive development.


Quote from: Que on January 21, 2023, 01:09:47 AMAfter western tanks, fighter jets will be on the agenda:

The Netherlands Will Consider the Possibility of Transferring F-16 Jets to Ukraine: Why This is a Very Realistic Scenario

Unfettered escalation is a negative development.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

pjme

#4950
January 21, 2023, 05:19:23 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 21, 2023, 03:44:35 AMIn my experience, having lived in The Netherlands for a year and having taken courses in Dutch and having watched Dutch TV, the pronunciation of "v" as "f" is indeed common but then again so is its pronunciation as "v", and I'd say that on TV it's more common as "v". For instance, vanavond means tonight and on TV they always pronounced it vonavond, with v and the first a turned into o.

@Que, please, help us settle the matter!  :)

This is interesting. But shouldn't we make this a new post?
I'm a Belgian and there several Dutch GMG'rs that could explain more....

Florestan

#4951
January 21, 2023, 05:44:35 AM
Quote from: pjme on January 21, 2023, 05:19:23 AMThis is interesting. But shouldn't we make this a new post?
I'm a Belgian and there several Dutch GMG'rs that could explain more....

Maybe @Que could cut the relevant posts on the matter from this thread and past them in a new topic, say, "Dutch Pronunciation of V" .
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

prémont

#4952
January 21, 2023, 09:07:13 AM
Quote from: Florestan on January 21, 2023, 05:44:35 AMMaybe @Que could cut the relevant posts on the matter from this thread and past them in a new topic, say, "Dutch Pronunciation of V" .

Or better: Dutch and German versus English pronounciation of "v", which actually was my starting point.
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Florestan

#4953
January 21, 2023, 09:08:34 AM
Quote from: premont on January 21, 2023, 09:07:13 AMOr better: Dutch and German versus English pronounciation of "v", which actually was my starting point.

Even better.
"Ja, sehr komisch, hahaha,
ist die Sache, hahaha,
drum verzeihn Sie, hahaha,
wenn ich lache, hahaha! "

Madiel

#4954
January 21, 2023, 11:32:20 AM
Or maybe we could accept that this was a far more enjoyable derailment of the thread than the ones the troll gives us, but move on.

Still negotiating the sale of his house.
Every single post on the forum is unnecessary. Including the ones that are interesting or useful.

pjme

#4955
January 21, 2023, 01:17:07 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 21, 2023, 09:08:34 AMEven better.

Ok - I'm of to bed now. let's talk again tomorrow

Que

#4956
January 21, 2023, 02:43:28 PM
Quote from: Florestan on January 21, 2023, 05:44:35 AMMaybe @Que could cut the relevant posts on the matter from this thread and past them in a new topic, say, "Dutch Pronunciation of V" .

Naahh, way too entertaining!  ;D

LKB

#4957
January 21, 2023, 04:44:06 PM
Quote from: Que on January 21, 2023, 02:43:28 PMNaahh, way too entertaining!  ;D

Surely you meant, " Naahh, vay too entertaining! "

Right?  ;)
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

prémont

#4958
January 21, 2023, 10:44:53 PM
Quote from: Que on January 21, 2023, 02:43:28 PMNaahh, way too entertaining!  ;D

Quote from: LKB on January 21, 2023, 04:44:06 PMSurely you meant, " Naahh, vay too entertaining! "

Right?  ;)

No way!  :P
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Que

#4959
January 22, 2023, 12:32:32 AM Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 12:47:02 AM by Que
More on the debate in Germany from Deutsche Welle:

https://www.dw.com/en/german-politicians-criticize-stalling-on-tanks-to-ukraine/a-64474921

It seems like Scholz' mindset has some serious issues with adjusting to reality.... When Russia invaded and Bulgaria was secretly sending massive amounts of ammunition... Germany sent helmets...
Months later German support has increased to substantial levels but Scholz doesn't seem to understand that Russian troops cannot be pushed back without proper tanks. But it's OK if they are old Russian made models?

If he is purposely aiming for a military stalemate, he'd better say so. But he doesn't... A stalemate would be in Russia's favour in the long run since it has unlimited amount of cannon fodder and it will lead to prolongued slaughter and loss of human lives.

Scholz has now ordered his new defense minister to do a "tank inventory".. You can't make this shit up... ::)

As predicted, the Polish and Baltic governments have protested and have appealed to Germany to at least cooperate with the delivery by other countries. How is Scholz going to come back from this? Apparently, war times are times in which some politicians are digging deep holes for themselves.

We could have faced a similar political farce over fighter jets, but luckily those are US made and transfer by other countries to Ukraine does not require German consent.

This whole episode - and I am referring to the conduct of Germany during to entire war AND Germany's Russia policy leading up to the war - will have serious impact on the future balance of power in Europe. Initially everyone in Europe was counting on German leadership, but no more. The influence of Poland has significantly increased, which will continue to increase once the expected political shift to a pro-EU course will take place at the next elections. A Poland with a more progressive, pro-EU leadership will find likely allies in the Baltic and Nordic states. Add to that the Czechs and Slovaks. A future accession of Ukraine, with its eternal alliance with Poland forged by this war, to the EU will seal this eastward shift of polical power in the EU.
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