Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

[Jo498]

Apparently I was wrong. The "green" DG does NOT overlap so much with the Amadeus set below, only the sextets are with the Amadeus. The quartets and piano/clarinet quintets are with the Emersons, string quintets with Hagen+Caussé.
So unlike the Amadeus centered "grey set" it's a rather haphazard collection.

I only know some of the Hyperion, the sextets are very good.
Of the Brilliant set I know the clarinet pieces and trios. They are all first rate. I suspect that the Tokyo quartet quartets are also very good.

[Brahmsian]

Apparently I was wrong. The "green" DG does NOT overlap so much with the Amadeus set below, only the sextets are with the Amadeus. The quartets and piano/clarinet quintets are with the Emersons, string quintets with Hagen+Caussé.
So unlike the Amadeus centered "grey set" it's a rather haphazard collection.

I only know some of the Hyperion, the sextets are very good.
Of the Brilliant set I know the clarinet pieces and trios. They are all first rate. I suspect that the Tokyo quartet quartets are also very good.

Yes, overall the performances on the Brilliant set are great. I just listened again to my one enigmatic luke warm piece, the opus 26 piano quartet in A major, and it was a much more positive experience. Perhaps the long absence made the heart grow fonder, as they say.

Was a 1996 performance with:

Derek Han, piano
Isabelle Faust, violin
Bruno Giuranna, viola
Alain Meunier, cello

[DavidW]

The Amadeus set is very good imo.

[Herman]

I'm not too hot about Leister's way with Brahms.
I'm guessing he's in the DG sets.

[Brahmsian]

I'm not too hot about Leister's way with Brahms.
I'm guessing he's in the DG sets.

He is featured in both DG sets, yes.

[Herman]

Leister is a major proponent of the autumnal, peaceful easy feeling Brahms.

[Jo498]

Herman's opinion on Leister is pretty much a minority one. Leister recorded this stuff 3-5 times and is generally recognized as one the best clarinetists of the second half of the 20th century.
In any case, some of his later recordings are in the Brilliant set, so this would be a point against the DG (although not exact doublings, of course).
But Thea King's hooting would also be a point against hyperion (I have not heard her Brahms but I dislike her tone on other recordings). Sharon Kam would be a good choice for a more recent recording of the clarinet pieces (I only have her trio+sonatas, though).

The A major piano quartet might be the most sprawling Brahms piece of all. One could either try an expansive but dramatic one, like Richter/Borodin or a tighter, more "classical" faster one, e.g. Domus/Virgin, maybe BeauxArts, or, if you can find them Vogt & friends (live from his festival).

I suspect that one the most famous Brahms' recordings of the Amadeus Q, the g minor piano q. with Gilels is missing from all of the DG boxes. It was on an "Originals" single disc, though. Rubinstein/Guarneri is also very good in the g minor and c minor but I find their A major too mellow and relaxed.
Despite this last remark, I think the (stereo, he did a few earlier ones as well) Brahms chamber music with Rubinstein overall well deserves its reputation and is worth seeking out. At some stage this was also in one of the cheap "white" boxes by RCA.

[Herman]

Herman's opinion on Leister is pretty much a minority one. Leister recorded this stuff 3-5 times and is generally recognized as one the best clarinetists of the second half of the 20th century.

Puzzling. I'm not saying Leister is a no good clarinetist. Obviosuly he is very good.
What I was saying is that he is a major proponent of the mellow, autumnal view of Brahms, which is IMHO not really born out by the music as written.
Yes, Kam is a good, more recent option, as is Martin Fröst.

[Mandryka]

Fun CD. I mean, I'm enjoying it now and I enjoyed it when I first heard it about six months ago. Some of the repertoire is non standard, the music seems wonderful in the hands of these two artists, Pregardien is someone whose style and voice I personally appreciate.  The essay on the Naxos site looks like it may be worth a glance

https://www.naxos.com/MainSite/BlurbsReviews/?itemcode=8.574346&catnum=574346&filetype=AboutThisRecording&language=English

[Spotted Horses]

All this talk of Brahms' chamber works has made me want to get another set (leaning towards the 11 disc DG set as it includes some of the Amadeus SQ recordings that I had given away to a friend years ago):

I had the DG set and find it unrewarding because I don't particularly like the Amadeus Quartet (the word the comes to mind is unctuous) and because I find the old DG sound for string quartets, quintets, sextets, etc, to be extremely strident and unpleasant. Of course, this is a matter of personal taste, and of course if you had the set you know if you like it.

Some of my favorite Brahms chamber music recordings are on Hyperion, so that would be a no brainer for me (if I didn't have it all on individual releases). The Raphael Ensemble is superb, as are the Florestan Trio. I guess the CDs are out of print but Hyperion sells the download on its site for a fair price (if you do downloads).

[Brahmsian]

I had the DG set and find it unrewarding because I don't particularly like the Amadeus Quartet (the word the comes to mind is unctuous) and because I find the old DG sound for string quartets, quintets, sextets, etc, to be extremely strident and unpleasant. Of course, this is a matter of personal taste, and of course if you had the set you know if you like it.

Some of my favorite Brahms chamber music recordings are on Hyperion, so that would be a no brainer for me (if I didn't have it all on individual releases). The Raphael Ensemble is superb, as are the Florestan Trio. I guess the CDs are out of print but Hyperion sells the download on its site for a fair price (if you do downloads).

Previously having that set, I did not find the Amadeus Qt playing "unctuous".  Although, I did find the overall sound on that set to be a little "high pitched", so the term strident is appropos.  Nevertheless, I became accustomed to it and if it did bother me at one point, it eventually didn't.

[Spotted Horses]

Previously having that set, I did not find the Amadeus Qt playing "unctuous".  Although, I did find the overall sound on that set to be a little "high pitched", so the term strident is appropos.  Nevertheless, I became accustomed to it and if it did bother me at one point, it eventually didn't.

Now you're making me regret I got rid of it. That was before I started ripping CDs.

Actually this is the one I had.



Does anyone know if either of the subsequent to box sets are new masters of the Amadeus material?

I should clarify that I was under the mistaken impression that the Brahms "collectors edition" and that green box were the same, my comments apply to the older collectors edition.

[Brahmsian]

Now you're making me regret I got rid of it. That was before I started ripping CDs.

Actually this is the one I had.



Does anyone know if either of the subsequent to box sets are new masters of the Amadeus material?

I should clarify that I was under the mistaken impression that the Brahms "collectors edition" and that green box were the same, my comments apply to the older collectors edition.

The previous Amadeus set I had was the grey steps cover with purple side trim.

[Spotted Horses]

The previous Amadeus set I had was the grey steps cover with purple side trim.

I found a scan of the booklet of the steps version and it had something about "mastered at Emil Berliner Studios" which suggests it is not the same as the 1987 master on my orange box. Maybe worth a revisit.

[Brahmsian]

This set includes mostly French musicians, a newer set:

So, is anyone familiar with this set, or can link in any reviews?  I've not been able to find reviews, even through David Hurwitz.

[Brahmsian]

Nevermind.  I think these are ALL live recordings.  Not interested now.

[Brahmsian]

Also, in regards to Brahms' Piano Quintet, Op. 34, are there any recordings for it in the String Quintet form?

[Spotted Horses]

Also, in regards to Brahms' Piano Quintet, Op. 34, are there any recordings for it in the String Quintet form?

I thought Brahms destroyed it and there are only attempts at reconstruction (I could be wrong). The two piano version is a masterpiece and I may prefer it to the piano quintet version.

[Brahmsian]

I thought Brahms destroyed it and there are only attempts at reconstruction (I could be wrong). The two piano version is a masterpiece and I may prefer it to the piano quintet version.

Okay, thank you.  I do have the two piano version (a few recordings) and it is highly enjoyable in that format.

My thoughts were similar to yours (only attempts at reconstruction).  If I recall, it would have a Schubert style String Quintet (two cellos), rather than the two viola quintets in the vein of Opus 88 and 111.

[Spotted Horses]

The conversation has sort of convinced me I need the Amadeus Quartet versions, since they were the first I heard of this music and I have a sentimental urge to listen to them again (especially since there seems to be a newer master in the more recent release).