How do you discover new music?

[Luke]

Almost. Shostakovich died in 1975, but someone else died at the end of 1976. In between those two dates, some rather wonderful music got written.

Between 1975 and 1976? 

Would the someone else be Britten, perchance?

[Luke]

Zombie music?

[Florestan]

Well the idiom is martial or regal, the key is major, and Eb major too, which is generally quite a brassy, bold key, but with enough minor chords and movement to a minor key (G) and also a melodic shape in the melody to suggest a touch of sturm und drag about it....so this particular section suggests those kinds of things. It's not a 'nature impression' though, like the Strauss, its more descriptive of a kind of social/human activity. Now tell me the title, which I'd know if this was a full score,  and maybe I can give some corrections or refinements to that.

Before giving you the title, any guess as to what genre it might be?

[Florestan]

Almost. Shostakovich died in 1975, but someone else died at the end of 1976. In between those two dates, some rather wonderful music got written.

Ah, yes, Britten, I should have guessed.

[Luke]

I mean the look of it is rather Italian opera, but it could be other things.

( sorry, that's replying to Florestan)

[Luke]

I read it as the Imperial Theme from Star Wars!
Dah-dum-di-dum-dum. Etc.
I imagine John Williams didn't often write 'a primo tempo' in his scores, though...

Nor cimbasso

[Luke]

I mean the look of it is rather Italian opera, but it could be other things.

( sorry, that's replying to Florestan)

It would maybe be early Verdi or similar

[Florestan]

I mean the look of it is rather Italian opera, but it could be other things.

It's the second, third and fourth page of the overture to Norma.

A primo tempo is not specifically Italian, though, I've seen it in the Dvorak VC score, too. I guess it's the cimbasso that gave it away.

I should have chosen something else, really. 

a melodic shape in the melody to suggest a touch of sturm und drag about it.

Did you hear the actual melody playing in your head? Oh, and how did you know it's in E-flat but it moves to G minor?

[foxandpeng]

Obviously part of it includes a group of about 8 people going down an escalator. 

Now THAT made me laugh, and being a miserable bugger, I don't often do that.

Those pieces of score could be absolutely anything, to me. I suspect even if I heard it, whether Bach, Bentzon or Birtwistle, it could still be about anything. The only piece of music I have ever been able to immediately correlate to a composer's intention is Beethoven 6. Well, that and a couple of others. The rest is all guesswork for me. I often hear pieces described as sombre or funereal, such as Myaskovsky 27, and wouldn't have seen it unless I'd been told. Except maybe DSCH SQ 8. That is haunting.

Anyway, you get my pointless, rambling drift.

[Luke]

It's the second, third and fourth page of the overture to Norma.

A primo tempo is not specifically Italian, though, I've seen it in the Dvorak VC score, too. I guess it's the cimbasso that gave it away.

It wasn't actually, I didn't see the cimbasso till I had a second look, because I got a fit of the much-missed spirit-of-the-chase of the old mystery scores quiz on the composers board, and thought I'd  have a go at chasing it up properly!

I should have chosen something else, really. 

No, why? What told me it was early 19th century Italian opera was a certain unsubtle look to the layout - that's not a criticism of Italian opera, by the way, that's simply how this music works. It has a trademark look, like lots of scores do. On the mystery scores quiz it was as much about recognizing those things as the music itself. A bit specialist, but lots of fun! I miss that thread....

Did you hear the actual melody playing in your head?

Yes, but first the sort of sound - brassy, brash, unsubtle - and the rhythm - dotted, marchlike. Then I knew it was a kind of march, so I wanted to see if it was a major key or a minor key which, in the baldest terms, would help me work out if it was a triumphal march or a funeral march (along with other indicators such as tempo). I'm not great on Italian opera so I suspected I wouldn't know the tune but I did have a look at it and yes I could hear it in my head.

[Florestan]

the much-missed spirit-of-the-chase of the old mystery scores quiz on the composers board,

Why not revive it? I'm game for it, we could see if we learned something from your well-intended posts. 

[Luke]

Oh, and how did you know it's in E-flat but it moves to G minor?

The three flats key signature is the key signature of either E-flat major or C minor, but the first chord is a blazing chord of E-flat major, so I made an assumption that we were in that key. However by the end of the extract the notes that are actually in play are the notes of G minor and the third page finishes with a long D in the bass which, being the dominant note of G minor is presumably preparatory to its appearance soon after, probably as the next chord.

[Florestan]

Yes, but first the sort of sound - brassy, brash, unsubtle - and the rhythm - dotted, marchlike. Then I knew it was a kind of march, so I wanted to see if it was a major key or a minor key which, in the baldest terms, would help me work out if it was a triumphal march or a funeral march (along with other indicators such as tempo). I'm not great on Italian opera so I suspected I wouldn't know the tune but I did have a look at it and yes I could hear it in my head

Well, that's something I will never be able to do even I devoted my whole remaining life to studying scores.   

[Florestan]

The three flats key signature is the key signature of either E-flat major or C minor, but the first chord is a blazing chord of E-flat major, so I made an assumption that we were in that key. However by the end of the extract the notes that are actually in play are the notes of G minor and the third page finishes with a long D in the bass which, being the dominant note of G minor is presumably preparatory to its appearance soon after, probably as the next chord.

Thanks. Well, this is knowledge that is needed prior to looking at the score. It can't be gathered by a layman simply by looking at it.

[Luke]

Well, that's something I will never be able to do even I devoted my whole remaining life to studying scores.   

You say that, but it's all explainable, attainable and attainable. It would take some work but it can be done.

For this example, first, you need to be able to feel the rhythm, which is just a matter of learning how rhythm notation works if you don't already know.

Second, you need to know that the first note of the tune, G, is the third note of the chord here, Eb major. So you imagine a major chord, brassy and punchy, and on the top of it you place that third degree (It's the part of the chord that makes it major, so it's simply part of the standard harmony). If this is difficult at first you might try imagining other famous tunes that start with the major third as the top note of the major chord as their first note such as (to cite popular classics), the Ode to Joy theme or the slow movement of Dvorak's 9th.

Third, in the case of this tune we begin with not a great deal of movement, and what there is is squashed in, chromatically, so we imagine that little squeeze upwards on the F#. Apply this note sequence to the rhythm....

I know, it sounds tricky. But it gets easier quite quickly.

However, I am fully aware that for most people it might not seem worth the hassle!

[Luke]

Thanks. Well, this is knowledge that is needed prior to looking at the score. It can't be gathered by a layman simply by looking at it.

Oh yes, sure. But the martial character of the music, as opposed to its mood, is clear from the general look of the thing, not from the details (i.e. happy soldiers or sad soldiers  they're all soldiers!). I recognise that even this may be difficult to see at first. But look at a few marches in score and soon enough their similarities will become clear.

Again, though, I repeat that I know this isn't for everyone. But it works for me.

[Florestan]

it sounds tricky

Tricky is an understatement.

I guess it might have worked if I'd been taught all this stuff at an early age. Now it's too late.

I am fully aware that for most people it might not seem worth the hassle!

Well, I'd be much more interested in learning to play an instrument than in reading scores but I guess that you can't have one without the other --- so too late again.

[DavidW]

Well, I'd be much more interesting in learning to play an instrument than in reading scores but I guess that you can't have one without the other --- so too late again.

You still can, you just wouldn't become the next Yo Yo Ma, but who does?

[Luke]

Well, I'd be much more interesting in learning to play an instrument than in reading scores but I guess that you can't have one without the other --- so too late again.

Learning to read a single line, or maybe two,* to play an instrument is of course a much easier skill than learning to read 20 or 30 at once (though in practice you're never really doing that when you're score reading). On the other hand you have to actually play that single line whereas usually with a score you're just hearing it internally.

*3 if you're an organist. 4 if you're playing e.g. Rachmaninov. 10 if you're playing Xenakis'Synaphai   

[Florestan]

You still can, you just wouldn't become the next Yo Yo Ma, but who does?

I'd be more than happy if I could become proficient enough to play Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star...