Are Urania Records' releases untampered releases?

[lordlance]

Urania Records have released some albums that were previously unavailable on digital streaming services like the Sawallisch Schubert set. I am weary of hearing their albums because I remember reading John F. Berky commenting how they fiddled with the audio of their releases (changing tape speed IIRC) and generally advising against listening to their releases. I am not good at detecting these things so what has forum members' experience been with their release?

[Daverz]

Urania Records have released some albums that were previously unavailable on digital streaming services like the Sawallisch Schubert set. I am weary of hearing their albums because I remember reading John F. Berky commenting how they fiddled with the audio of their releases (changing tape speed IIRC) and generally advising against listening to their releases. I am not good at detecting these things so what has forum members' experience been with their release?

As far as I know, they are just doing "needle drops" of LPs that are out of copyright.  There are a lot of labels now on this train (Praga and Pristine, for example).  Unless you are really desperate just to hear something unavailable otherwise, I wouldn't bother. 

[lordlance]

As far as I know, they are just doing "needle drops" of LPs that are out of copyright.  There are a lot of labels now on this train (Praga and Pristine, for example).  Unless you are really desperate just to hear something unavailable otherwise, I wouldn't bother. 

"Needle drop" meaning LP rips? I only need them for stuff not available otherwise like the Sawallisch set. Pristine isn't quite the same. Rose does a lot of fiddling with the audio - if the result is good or better is on the listener but it's a concerted effort.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

As far as I know, they are just doing "needle drops" of LPs that are out of copyright.  There are a lot of labels now on this train (Praga and Pristine, for example).  Unless you are really desperate just to hear something unavailable otherwise, I wouldn't bother. 

Praga is...that surprises me.  Would you mind giving some examples?  And do they bother to do any "cleaning up" so to speak?

PD

[Daverz]

"Needle drop" meaning LP rips? I only need them for stuff not available otherwise like the Sawallisch set. Pristine isn't quite the same. Rose does a lot of fiddling with the audio - if the result is good or better is on the listener but it's a concerted effort.

Yes,  LP rips.  Very doubtful they have access to master tapes.  There are some labels using commercial reel-to-reel tapes, e.g. HDTT. 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Yes,  LP rips.  Very doubtful they have access to master tapes.  There are some labels using commercial reel-to-reel tapes, e.g. HDTT. 

Who is HDTT?  And, pardon, but did you see my earlier quote of you and question?

PD

[Daverz]

Who is HDTT?  And, pardon, but did you see my earlier quote of you and question?

PD

HDTT is High Definition Tape Transfers.  They do digital transfers of commercial reel-to-reel tapes.

[Brian]

Praga is...that surprises me.  Would you mind giving some examples?  And do they bother to do any "cleaning up" so to speak?

PD

Praga has a strange combination of new, original releases and out-of-Euro-copyright reissues. I have some of the old reissues. They tend to compile a variety of recordings from different labels onto one re-release. Here are some examples:



The Michelangeli Ravel is same as the EMI version, while the Ansermet Debussy is from Decca. I also own the below disc in its Praga version because I didn't know where to find the original:

[Daverz]

Praga is...that surprises me.  Would you mind giving some examples?  And do they bother to do any "cleaning up" so to speak?

PD

Looking thru their recent releases, lots of Richter, Mravinsky, Oistrakh, Michelangeli, Borodin Quartet, etc.  Maybe they're good transfers, but I tend to be very skeptical about these sorts of "because we can" transfers. They are on streaming services, so one can sample.  I stick to their fine original recordings.

[vandermolen]

I have some of their releases, Vaughan Williams, Shostakovich, Glazunov, Khachaturian etc.
My main objection is that they almost never incorporate booklet notes.
I found them quite a friendly company to deal with. I had no problems with the transfers but I am not listening on top-of-the-range equipment.

[aukhawk]

"Needle drop" meaning LP rips?

If by LP rips you mean needle drops, yes.   

HDTT is High Definition Tape Transfers.  They do digital transfers of commercial reel-to-reel tapes.

They use a variety of sources, and are usually fairly up-front over what the source is for any one of their releases.  Could be "studio master" or could even be a needle drop (which is a bit of a joke since they are offering hi-rez transcriptions).  I think they are not above doing a bit of processing and the results are very mixed - but they do generously offer a free 2-minute download of each of their releases.  I have checked out many of these free samples and almost invarably not gone on to buy, because the same recording sounds better via Spotify or some other source.

Pristine are IMHO quite different because they make their processing a virtue and a selling point.

[Daverz]

[HDTT] use a variety of sources, and are usually fairly up-front over what the source is for any one of their releases.  Could be "studio master" or could even be a needle drop (which is a bit of a joke since they are offering hi-rez transcriptions).  I think they are not above doing a bit of processing and the results are very mixed - but they do generously offer a free 2-minute download of each of their releases.  I have checked out many of these free samples and almost invarably not gone on to buy, because the same recording sounds better via Spotify or some other source.

I do have their issue of Munch's Bizet Symphony in C and Tchaikovsky Francesca di Rimini, which is a good transfer, because I gave up on finding the Chesky issue.

[aukhawk]

I do have two HDTT remasters, and have sampled and passed on a dozen more.
The first was the Karajan/DG coupling of Sibelius 6 & 7 - which incidentally I can no longer find on their website.  I bought this (in 96/24) long before the 'official' hi-rez release appeared - I haven't been able to hear that one yet.  The HDTT transfer was from "original 4-track master" though I take "master" with a pinch of salt as it will surely always be a 2nd- or 3rd-generation copy, especially with such old material (1960s).   I was seeking improved sound in the 6th Symphony, which I have always felt to be a rather thin recording.  Ultimately it sounds no better, no worse, compared with the Original Masters CD.  Although by studying waveforms, spectra etc differences can be seen - but not really noticeable audibly.

The second was the classic Ormandy coupling of Shostakovich Cello Concerto and Symphony 1.  There's no statement on their site of the source for this remaster.  This turned out to be a mixed bag - the original recordings have always been very good indeed for their time (1959) and still hold up well today.  I do feel the HDTT transfers sound marginally better still.  HOWEVER they have been subjected to noise reduction which means where there is a loud sound followed by silence, it is possible to hear the tail of the reverberation 'gating' out.  This is very problematic in the 1st Symphony where there is a passage consisting of a flourish for solo tympani, followed by silence, then another flourish, then silence, then the orchestra resumes.  This important passage of music is wrecked in the HDTT version (again, I have the 96/24 variant).

After that experience, I became more wary and studied their free downloads carefully.  I was very interested in the Kondrashin Execution of Stephan Razin.  This is a typically fierce recording which I have on the original EMI/Melodiya LP and had long ago needle-dropped using my elderly but good quality turntable and cartridge.  I hoped I could get better from HDTT - they state as their source "from a Angel 4-track" - so I compared their 2-minute sample with my needle-drop.  Very similar, but studying the waveforms showed more peak compression in the HDTT version.  Could be an artifact of the tape source of course.  I also recorded the first few minutes of the same recording off Spotify Premium.  (Of course recording from a streaming service contravenes their Terms but this was just to make the comparison.)  The Spotify version was clearly much less compressed and, I judged, sounded the best of the three.  So on this occasion I did not buy from HDTT.  My needle-drop is not bad and if I come across a used CD I'll get that.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I do have two HDTT remasters, and have sampled and passed on a dozen more.
The first was the Karajan/DG coupling of Sibelius 6 & 7 - which incidentally I can no longer find on their website.  I bought this (in 96/24) long before the 'official' hi-rez release appeared - I haven't been able to hear that one yet.  The HDTT transfer was from "original 4-track master" though I take "master" with a pinch of salt as it will surely always be a 2nd- or 3rd-generation copy, especially with such old material (1960s).  I was seeking improved sound in the 6th Symphony, which I have always felt to be a rather thin recording.  Ultimately it sounds no better, no worse, compared with the Original Masters CD.  Although by studying waveforms, spectra etc differences can be seen - but not really noticeable audibly.

Interesting...of this one?  If so, I just bought the Sibelius on LP--yesterday!



PD

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Interesting...of this one?  If so, I just bought the Sibelius on LP--yesterday!



PD

p.s.  Though mine is of DG Gesellschaft.

[aukhawk]

Yes I have the LP as well. Karajan is probably my favourite recording of the 7th.