Harpsichords and Navel Gazing

[Florestan]

Didn't Florestan just get the Haebler recordings in some form?

I got the Haebler's Mozart PC set a few years ago in mp3 format, which I am unable to tell from FLAC or viceversa. I can let you, or anyone else, have it --- if interested, PM me.

[Madiel]

in mp3 format, which I am unable to tell from FLAC or viceversa

Get behind me, Satan...

It does depend on the quality of the mp3. But honestly, unless someone suffers from really poor download speeds we should be getting rid of mp3. It's harpsichord technology...

[Florestan]

Get behind me, Satan...

It does depend on the quality of the mp3. But honestly, unless someone suffers from really poor download speeds we should be getting rid of mp3. It's harpsichord technology...

 

I am not an audiophile. I listen either through my laptop or through a FiiO portable player, in both cases using low-end earbuds --- thus FLAC or mp3 it's all the same to me. I'm sure that in a blind test I couldn't differentiate between them.

[Madiel]

I am not an audiophile. I listen either through my laptop or through a FiiO portable player, in both cases using low-end earbuds --- thus FLAC or mp3 it's all the same to me. I'm sure that in a blind test I couldn't differentiate between them.

Well, back in 2009 I bought a Tori Amos album on mp3 - so proper commercial files - and then bought the same album on CD and ripped it onto iTunes. The CD rip was clearly better.

I'm not an audiophile either, but my earbuds are mid rather than low-end. And that definitely makes a difference, even listening from my iPhone. The kind of music would also make a difference of course. How much sonic detail there is.

[Florestan]

I'm not an audiophile either, but my earbuds are mid rather than low-end. And that definitely makes a difference, even listening from my iPhone. The kind of music would also make a difference of course. How much sonic detail there is.

I am aware that, the more sophisticated the equipment, the bigger the difference between lossy and lossless. That's why, even if I had money, I wouldn't upgrade my very modest setup. I don't want to lose my innocence and peace of mind. As the French say, mieux est l'ennemi du bien. 

[Madiel]

As the French say, mieux est l'ennemi du bien

You could have just said "ignorance is bliss". LOL

[Florestan]

You could have just said "ignorance is bliss". LOL

In this respect, and for me, it really is. The last thing that I want or need is to get embroiled in the hunt for the wild goose of perfect sound. 

[Madiel]

In this respect, and for me, it really is. The last thing that I want or need is to get embroiled in the hunt for the wild goose of perfect sound. 

Yes, but I'm not advocating "perfect sound". It's like a lot of products - heck, it's like MOST products: the first bit of extra money gets you a lot better improvement than further bits of extra money.

[Florestan]

Yes, but I'm not advocating "perfect sound". It's like a lot of products - heck, it's like MOST products: the first bit of extra money gets you a lot better improvement than further bits of extra money.

Well, when my current earphones will crash, I might consider buying better ones.

[prémont]

I am not an audiophile. I listen either through my laptop or through a FiiO portable player, in both cases using low-end earbuds --- thus FLAC or mp3 it's all the same to me. I'm sure that in a blind test I couldn't differentiate between them.

With this equipment you cannot expect to be able to fairly judge the sound of a harpsichord, so in this regard you must be considered highly biased.

[Florestan]

With this equipment you cannot expect to be able to fairly judge the sound of a harpsichord,

It may be so, but I very much doubt that the harpsichord would miraculously cease to grate on my ears and start caressing them even on the most SOTA equipment. 

so in this regard you must be considered highly biased.

Highly biased? You take the matter much more seriously than you should. I don't remember claiming that my dislike of the harpsichord has any objective reason. It's just my personal reaction, which has zero influence on what other people think, and hear, in this respect. I don't think any GMGer ever stopped listening to harpsichord music because of my opinions. 

[prémont]

It may be so, but I very much doubt that the harpsichord would miraculously cease to grate on my ears and start caressing them even on the most SOTA equipment. 

You doubt but actually you don't know. Reminds me of being biased.

Highly biased? ... I don't remember claiming that my dislike of the harpsichord has any objective reason...

Of course not, because you are not aware of the possibility that the poor sound reproduction could be the objective reason.

[Daverz]

With this equipment you cannot expect to be able to fairly judge the sound of a harpsichord, so in this regard you must be considered highly biased.

Some of the best sound reproduction I've heard is from my $50 TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEMs.  Cheap is not necessarily bad. 

Anyway, it's best to listen to harpsichord music at low volume.

[Florestan]

You doubt but actually you don't know.

I know that the probability is small. Satisfied now? 

the possibility that the poor sound reproduction could be the objective reason.

I listen to piano or violin or trombone or whatever through the same equipment, yet I dislike only the harpsichord. Do you imply that it is such a special and unique instrument that only its sound is badly distorted by low-end equipment?

Anyway, we've been going too far with this topic. Let anyone listen to whatever instrument they like, there are far more important problems in the world than Bach's music being played on a Steinway. 

[prémont]

I know that the probability is small. Satisfied now? 

I doubt that you know. But I may be biased.

I listen to piano or violin or trombone or whatever through the same equipment, yet I dislike only the harpsichord. Do you imply that it is such a special and unique instrument that only its sound is badly distorted by low-end equipment?

All instruments suffer from bad sound reproduction, but the harpsichord is particularly vulnerable. It is maybe the most difficult instrument to record and there are lots of badly recorded harpsichord CDs.

.. Let anyone listen to whatever instrument they like,

Of course. This wasn't my point, but the fact that fair judgement of the sound of an instrument demands fair sound reproduction. The best would be to hear the instruments live.

..there are far more important problems in the world than Bach's music being played on a Steinway. 

Yes, but these problems are not relevant in a music forum.

[Spotted Horses]

Anyway, it's best to listen to harpsichord music at low volume.

I think that is a big part of the issue. When I have heard a harpsichord in person (very rare) it is not at all unpleasant, but quiet. To get the right experience in a recording it has to be listened to at appropriate volume and I find it is a lot harder to appreciate quiet sounds in a recording than quiet sounds in real life. There is the temptation to turn it up. Also, recordings tend to have a mid-high emphasis (to capture your attention, sort of like when they have to put more salt into processed food to have any taste at all) and that emphasizes the more grating aspect of a harpsichord. So I think harpsichord is unique in requiring high-end reproduction to be appreciated.

To sum up, I rarely listen to harpsichord, but I suspect that in person I would ike it.

[Daverz]

I think that is a big part of the issue. When I have heard a harpsichord in person (very rare) it is not at all unpleasant, but quiet. To get the right experience in a recording it has to be listened to at appropriate volume and I find it is a lot harder to appreciate quiet sounds in a recording than quiet sounds in real life. There is the temptation to turn it up. Also, recordings tend to have a mid-high emphasis (to capture your attention, sort of like when they have to put more salt into processed food to have any taste at all) and that emphasizes the more grating aspect of a harpsichord. So I think harpsichord is unique in requiring high-end reproduction to be appreciated.

To sum up, I rarely listen to harpsichord, but I suspect that in person I would ike it.

Also the instruments vary widely in beauty of tone.  Those giant Pleyel's that Landowska played are always going to sound a bit nasty compared with a beautiful sounding modern recreation instrument like those Hantaï plays.

[DavidW]

I also found that harpsichords don't sound as harsh in live music even when I was young (in college).  Their recorded sound used to bother me on solo works, but now that age has blunted my ability to hear treble it is not a problem!

[Mandryka]

Also the instruments vary widely in beauty of tone.  Those giant Pleyel's that Landowska played are always going to sound a bit nasty compared with a beautiful sounding modern recreation instrument like those Hantaï plays.

This is very much in the ears of the beholder - I know a couple of modern piano types who have said to me that this is the only recent harpsichord recital they've enjoyed.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0OEV_06qW0I

[Mandryka]

I think that is a big part of the issue. When I have heard a harpsichord in person (very rare) it is not at all unpleasant, but quiet. To get the right experience in a recording it has to be listened to at appropriate volume and I find it is a lot harder to appreciate quiet sounds in a recording than quiet sounds in real life. There is the temptation to turn it up. Also, recordings tend to have a mid-high emphasis (to capture your attention, sort of like when they have to put more salt into processed food to have any taste at all) and that emphasizes the more grating aspect of a harpsichord. So I think harpsichord is unique in requiring high-end reproduction to be appreciated.

To sum up, I rarely listen to harpsichord, but I suspect that in person I would ike it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PxZSN-B6uI


I really like Royer's Vertigo with the volume pumped up. I have a feeling (I'm not totally sure) that the sort of French instruments he was writing for could do serious volume.

This is the performance which made me see that Beethoven's very physical piano music - some bagatelles for example, or even some of op 106 - could well be fun to try on a suitable harpsichord.