RIP Cormac McCarthy

[Crudblud]

When I read it my impression of the Judge was essentially a personification of man's worst appetites, but I think more particularly he is used to embody the excesses of American expansionism. The secondary literature on Blood Meridian that I have read seems to show a consensus of interpretation regarding the Judge as the Devil, although Harold Bloom for example argues he is beyond any particular culture or mythology.

[BWV 1080]

When I read it my impression of the Judge was essentially a personification of man's worst appetites, but I think more particularly he is used to embody the excesses of American expansionism. The secondary literature on Blood Meridian that I have read seems to show a consensus of interpretation regarding the Judge as the Devil, although Harold Bloom for example argues he is beyond any particular culture or mythology.

That's where I would criticize McCarthy, does not take much reading of either history or current events to realize how depressingly common psychopaths like Judge Holden are.  Even worse would be making the Judge some sort of symbol of America, like somehow we have a monopoly on this sort of violence.

[San Antone]

The Judge is described as being fluent in a number of languages, playing the violin, dancing, all excellently:  "He masters everything he puts his hand to," demonstrated with the scene of making gunpowder - as well as many others.

It is superficial to call him a common psychopath, and dismisses McCarthy's prose mastery. There are extended descriptions of the group riding through the country which are some of the best writing I've ever read.  Poetic prose.

To describe the book as a violent celebration of a psychopath completely misreads it.

[BWV 1080]

The Judge is described as being fluent in a number of languages, playing the violin, dancing, all excellently:  "He masters everything he puts his hand to," demonstrated with the scene of making gunpowder - as well as many others.

Sure, but the talented psychopath is not unusual, Oskar Direlwanger had a PhD, their is Jimmy Saville or James Levine etc

It is superficial to call him a common psychopath, and dismisses McCarthy's prose mastery.

psychopaths are common, but dont see how criticizing one aspect of the book dismisses other aspects

There are extended descriptions of the group riding through the country which are some of the best writing I've ever read.  Poetic prose.

dont disagree, also the Comanche attack

To describe the book as a violent celebration of a psychopath completely misreads it.

Of course that was not what I said, curious that you interpret it that way. 

[Mandryka]

I'm not sure I'm right about this, but I think a bit of close reading would show that McCarthy is at pains to give The Judge a strange, other worldly, aura. Some of his behaviour is psychopathic (like killing the little Apache boy) - but he's hardly the biggest psychopath in the novel.

The landscape writing is indeed magnificent @San Antone

Can you put me on to some good secondary literature @Crudblud ?

I'm trying to find a bit which really left a mark on me, but I can't. The Kid sees an old lady alone in the desert, at the scene of a massacre. He goes to help her, to get her out of there and save her. He speaks to her, offering her help. He touches her, and finds she is already long dead, just an empty shell.

One reason I think it's "about" the kid's development is that he, maybe more than any others, seems to manifest humanity, kindness. But of course The Judge can be kind - he saved The Imbecile from drowning. And so can the others (maybe, more close reading required!)

[vers la flamme]

Well it's not like the Judge is pnly a mouthpiece for McCormac's "philosophy" - he has a structural role to play in the narrative. It looks like a Bildungsroman, and the Judge is a key figure in the Kid's development - and he does develop, but I'm not sure I can say how.

I'm 40% through All The Pretty Horses now - not impressed! But I'll stay with it a bit longer to see what happens in prison.

Too bad. I really liked that one; the way McCarthy writes about the north Mexican scenery is very evocative, and the "horse whisperer" protagonist was compelling for me.

P.S. I wouldn't call the Judge the protagonist of Blood Meridian, but maybe I don't know the correct definition of that word.

[BWV 1080]

P.S. I wouldn't call the Judge the protagonist of Blood Meridian, but maybe I don't know the correct definition of that word.

Maybe I am misusing the word, but the Judge is the central focus of the book - and if you can find Captain Ahab referred to as the protagonist then why not Judge Holden?

[San Antone]

Sure, but the talented psychopath is not unusual, Oskar Direlwanger had a PhD, their is Jimmy Saville or James Levine etc
psychopaths are common, but dont see how criticizing one aspect of the book dismisses other aspects
dont disagree, also the Comanche attack

Of course that was not what I said, curious that you interpret it that way.

Keep in mind the events of this book took place in the 1850s, and in a very uncivilized area of the United States.  Being violent, as well as being ruthless, were necessary aspects of staying alive.

Also, I found the Judge character interesting from the very beginning when he takes down the con man preacher, accusing him of moral turpitude in Fort Smith Arkansas, and being run out of town, tar-and-feathered.  It only comes out later in the bar that he admits to having never been in Fort Smith. 

I found the character very entertaining.  Only in the last scene does he gross me out, and I have trouble with how the book ends.

[vers la flamme]

Also, I found the Judge character interesting from the very beginning when he takes down the con man preacher, accusing him of moral turpitude in Fort Smith Arkansas, and being run out of town, tar-and-feathered.  It only comes out later in the bar that he admits to having never been in Fort Smith. 

I loved that part too. Edit: just picked up the book and read through the first chapter. Might reread the whole thing

[Mandryka]

 ]

Maybe I am misusing the word, but the Judge is the central focus of the book - and if you can find Captain Ahab referred to as the protagonist then why not Judge Holden?

Well just as Call me Ishmael makes you know that Ishmael is a main player in Moby Dick, See the child makes you know that The Kid is a main player in Blood Meridian.  The incipits are too similar for it not to be significant IMO.

[Mandryka]

An analogous novel, I suggest, is Mann's Magic Mountain. The Kid = Hans Castorp; The Judge = Settembrini; The Expriest = Castorp. I'd even argue that the mountain and the desert have common traits (distant from civilisation, a magical place)

[Mandryka]

Too bad. I really liked that one; the way McCarthy writes about the north Mexican scenery is very evocative, and the "horse whisperer" protagonist was compelling for me.

Abandoned - it just seemed to be saying "look at how those evil Mexicans treat our wholesome American  boys."

[Mandryka]

I'm half way through The Road. Something is keeping me turning the pages despite the linearity of the structure.

Father and son - and in Blood Meridian The Judge wants to be The Kid's father, arguably that's what it's mainly "about." And the hostile lifeless landscape of the road, with its threatening gangs - is like the desert and the "savages" too.

[Mandryka]

Just look at this prose poem from Suttree (I am all of 2% through)  -- astonishing at the level of style. Reading it, the thing that caught my attention was the rhythm of "The heart beneath the breastbone pumping"

He crossed the cabin and stretched himself out on the cot. Closing his eyes. A faint breeze from the window stirring his hair. The shantyboat trembled slightly in the river and one of the steel drums beneath the floor expanded in the heat with a melancholy bong. Eyes resting. This hushed and mazy Sunday. The heart beneath the breastbone pumping. The blood on its appointed rounds. Life in small places, narrow crannies. In the leaves, the toad's pulse. The delicate cellular warfare in a waterdrop. A dextrocardiac, said the smiling doctor. Your heart's in the right place. Weathershrunk and loveless. The skin drawn and split like an overripe fruit.

He turned heavily on the cot and put one eye to a space in the rough board wall. The river flowing past out there. Cloaca Maxima. Death by drowning, the ticking of a dead man's watch. The old tin clock on Grandfather's table hammered like a foundry. Leaning to say goodbye in the little yellow room, reek of lilies and incense. He arched his neck to tell to me some thing. I never heard. He wheezed my name, his grip belied the frailty of him. His caved and wasted face. The dead would take the living with them if they could, I pulled away. Sat in an ivy garden that lizards kept with constant leathery slitherings. Hutched hares ghost pale in the shade of the carriagehouse wall. Flagstones in a rosegarden, the terraced slope of the lawn above the river, odor of boxwood and mossmold and old brick in the shadow of the springhouse. Under the watercress stones in the clear flowage cluttered with periwinkles. A salamander, troutspeckled. Leaning to suck the cold and mossy water. A rimpled child's face watching back, a watery isomer agoggle in the rings.

In my father's last letter he said that the world is run by those willing to take the responsibility for the running of it. If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.

From all old seamy throats of elders, musty books, I've salvaged not a word. . .

[Mandryka]

I'm half way through The Road. Something is keeping me turning the pages despite the linearity of the structure.

Father and son - and in Blood Meridian The Judge wants to be The Kid's father, arguably that's what it's mainly "about." And the hostile lifeless landscape of the road, with its threatening gangs - is like the desert and the "savages" too.

Finished. Not  convinced that it's got anything really going for it at the level of structure, style, character or idea. But it's an "entertaining" (not the word really) read, and there are some purple passages.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Just look at this prose poem from Suttree (I am all of 2% through) 

That reminds me, I have to try that book again. I think I made it about 3% through. If I can get through that initial intimidating wall of text things might go more smoothly.

[vers la flamme]

That's one of a couple that I haven't read. Not sure what I'm waiting for.  Maybe I'll pick up a copy when I'm all set up in my new place next month.

[Crudblud]

Can you put me on to some good secondary literature @Crudblud ?

Sorry, I didn't see this. I would have to go digging through my university's library system again, these were articles I read while researching for an essay that I ended up not writing.

[Mandryka]

Sorry, I didn't see this. I would have to go digging through my university's library system again, these were articles I read while researching for an essay that I ended up not writing.

This arrived this afternoon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1526172054?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[Mandryka]

That reminds me, I have to try that book again. I think I made it about 3% through. If I can get through that initial intimidating wall of text things might go more smoothly.

That's one of a couple that I haven't read. Not sure what I'm waiting for.  Maybe I'll pick up a copy when I'm all set up in my new place next month.

I'm 25% through Sutree. It is a fabulous book, so far full of humanity and humour. It's a great portrait of a city (Knoxville), like Les Miserables and Berlin Alexanderplatz. Wonderful prose poems throughout, as you would expect.