Your Top Four Brahms Symphonies

[Jo498]

Schoenberg thought it needed an orchestra and that it did not work well as a piano quartet.

Schoenberg was a great admirer of Brahms.

Although I occasionally enjoy the Schönberg orchestration I think he was wrong that it needed orchestration (and I believe Brahms would have been abhorred by the cheesy percussion, as fun as it might appear to us) and I wonder why he apparently only encountered poor performances of the piece.

[ghmath]

I've always liked Brahms' chamber and piano music. It's the symphonies that do nothing for me.

Lieder?

[Florestan]

Lieder?

Yes, Lieder too. When it comes to orchestral music, I greatly prefer the concertos and the serenades to the symphonies.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Although I occasionally enjoy the Schönberg orchestration I think he was wrong that it needed orchestration (and I believe Brahms would have been abhorred by the cheesy percussion, as fun as it might appear to us) and I wonder why he apparently only encountered poor performances of the piece.

"Cheesy" is a good word for Schoenberg's xylophone and other gadgetry. But I enjoy the piece too, especially in the wild Robert Craft/CSO recording and the ballet as choreographed by Balanchine.

(PS: on the Schönberg/Schoenberg distinction, I believe he came to use the -oe- form when he came to America, the English alphabet and typewriter keyboards not having the umlauted form. It doesn't help, because most Americans don't know how to pronounce the umlauted o anyway and what you generally hear is Schonberg. But the umlauted o shouldn't be hard; it's similar to the vowel found in words like her, bird, earn, and burn without the following r. It's the umlauted u that has no English equivalent. I defer of course to any corrections to the above Jo498 cares to offer.)

[(poco) Sforzando]

Yes, Lieder too. When it comes to orchestral music, I greatly prefer the concertos and the serenades to the symphonies.

Hmm. I'm not a huge fan of either the 1st piano concerto or the double, though I love the 2nd piano and the violin. Love the 4th and 2nd symphony especially, and also the serenades and the three short orchestral pieces.

Academic Festival, btw, which I consider a lot of fun, figures in Joseph Mankiewicz's 1951 film "People Will Talk," where Cary Grant conducts it at the movie's end. This film also btw includes a mysterious taciturn character known as Shunderson, played by Finlay Currie. I am absolutely convinced, though I cannot prove, that Currie was made up here to look like Anton Bruckner.

[Jo498]

"Cheesy" is a good word for Schoenberg's xylophone and other gadgetry. But I enjoy the piece too, especially in the wild Robert Craft/CSO recording and the ballet as choreographed by Balanchine.

I lack the imagination to imagine it as ballet but it sure sounds interesting. I support the Craft recommendation (although I have probably not heard more than 2 others).

(PS: on the Schönberg/Schoenberg distinction, I believe he came to use the -oe- form when he came to America, the English alphabet and typewriter keyboards not having the umlauted form. It doesn't help, because most Americans don't know how to pronounce the umlauted o anyway and what you generally hear is Schonberg. But the umlauted o shouldn't be hard; it's similar to the vowel found in words like her, bird, earn, and burn without the following r. It's the umlauted u that has no English equivalent. I defer of course to any corrections to the above Jo498 cares to offer.)

I could not have explained it better. The sound is often a little different than in "bird" (a bit longer and more closed) but occurs also in French (e.g. "peu") and represented by the crossed "o" in several Scandinavian languages.
I didn't think about it while typing, but yes, Schoenberg used this spelling in the US.

I have an umlaut in my last name as well and when I went to university for a year in the US I ended up with different spellings in important documents because I could not convince the lady in the ID card office to use "oe" instead of plain "o". So I had ö, oe (in my German/internat IDs/cards) and o (in the Washington State ID) and was sometimes a bit anxious that someone would get suspicious when I'd present the ID together with a credit card or so that had a different spelling. But I don't think I ever ran into any trouble (it was also mid-1990s before war on terror).

[Karl Henning]

If I never ever heard a Brahms symphony anymore, I would not think I lost much, or even anything at all. 

Well, but you feel similarly about the LvB Op. 92. I think your ears need a re-set. If I heard the Brahms symphonies as frequently as Classical Radio programs them, I expect I'd grow weary of them at last,,too.

[Karl Henning]

"Cheesy" is a good word for Schoenberg's xylophone and other gadgetry. But I enjoy the piece too, especially in the wild Robert Craft/CSO recording ....

So do I. 

[LKB]

I'm fondest of Brahms' Third. It's one of the first classical pieces l memorized, and introduced me ( via vinyl ) to both von Karajan and Lothar Koch, the oboist most responsible to my taking up that instrument after several years in percussion.

As for the other symphonies, l enjoy the Fourth, Second and First, in that order.

[DavidW]

I'm fondest of Brahms' Third. It's one of the first classical pieces l memorized, and introduced me ( via vinyl ) to both von Karajan and Lothar Koch, the oboist most responsible to my taking up that instrument after several years in percussion.

As for the other symphonies, l enjoy the Fourth, Second and First, in that order.

That is my order as well.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I lack the imagination to imagine it as ballet but it sure sounds interesting. I support the Craft recommendation (although I have probably not heard more than 2 others).

Here are some bits of it, in varying degrees of audio/video quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-BL3OOu_Sg&t=2s (3rd mvt., no sound)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CVDbhYUCIs&t=1s (finale)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUkTXmz7m8 (finale, excerpt, good video)

Balanchine choreographed all kinds of things, including a surprisingly good Goldberg Variations. His Bizet Symphony in C is just glorious, especially the finale - though best experienced live:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn1ZVGp0plc&t=1449s

[Iota]

Schoenberg thought it [Brahms Piano Quartet No.1] needed an orchestra and that it did not work well as a piano quartet.

I can't understand why Schoenberg singled out that piano quartet for such a comment, I find it a rather magnificent thing. I don't recall hearing his transcription of it, though I have no problem with him doing so. I'll have a listen and hope to enjoy it, and perhaps find some illumination as to what motivated him. 

[Florestan]

Well, but you feel similarly about the LvB Op. 92.

True. The only LvB symphonies I still like are 1, 2, 6 and 8. In general when it comes to the 19th century the symphony is my least favorite genre.

[Scion7]

The only LvB symphonies I still like are 1, 2, 6 and 8. In general when it comes to the 19th century the symphony is my least favorite genre.

Oh, my ... 

[Karl Henning]

True. The only LvB symphonies I still like are 1, 2, 6 and 8. In general when it comes to the 19th century the symphony is my least favorite genre.

Well, one likes what one likes, of course.

[Cato]

I can't understand why Schoenberg singled out that piano quartet for such a comment, I find it a rather magnificent thing. I don't recall hearing his transcription of it, though I have no problem with him doing so. I'll have a listen and hope to enjoy it, and perhaps find some illumination as to what motivated him.

As mentioned earlier:

[Iota]

As mentioned earlier:

Those videos are unavailable for me I'm afraid.

[AnotherSpin]

One doesn't have to love Brahms' symphonies. Some were just unlucky, they didn't stumble upon the right performance that could create a miracle, ignite passion. I was lucky enough to buy in late 70s a Soviet box of licensed editions of all Brahms symphonies in a magnificent performance by Karl Böhm with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. Thats how it all really started for me with Brahms.

I don't see how one can place the Brahms symphonies in order of preference. Each symphony is wonderful in its own way.

[DavidW]

Bohm is just exceptional in Brahms!!

[DavidW]

Well, one likes what one likes, of course.

I think that is what I would say if someone told me they loved country/western music!