Shakespeare

[vers la flamme]

What's it about then?

No idea, to be honest. Why did Hamlet send Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to their deaths? Was it inevitable that it all ended in such a bloodbath, or was that just the result of everyone's scheme's backfiring at once? Was the ghost the real deal or some shared hallucination? What is the meaning of Horatio's character? Pretty complex stuff, well beyond my limited intellectual scope, especially as I didn't know the meaning of every tenth word or so. But I did very much enjoy certain scenes from the play: Hamlet and the gravedigger, Hamlet's famous soliloquy musing on suicide, the play within the play, etc.

What is it about anyway? After finishing, I wonder how it ever got as popular as it did, considering its complexity and strangeness.

[Mandryka]

Hamlet changed my life. I was 17 and a maths specialist. My school insisted that even maths geeks do a couple of hours a week of Literature. The teacher we had was brilliant - I remember we read Tamburlain, The Changeling and Hamlet and he put me onto a book which I still have called Hamlet and the Philosophy of Literary Criticism by Maurice Weitz. And that was it, I was hooked. I persuaded the school to let me study maths and English instead of Maths and Physics - when I went to university I read Maths and Philosophy.

This stuff stays with you all your life. In January this year I noticed a mole which mysteriously appeared on my arm. False alarm, it was a wart, but there was a period of about a week when I diagnosed myself on google and, of course, convinced myself that I had an aggressive malignant cancer of the worst kind. Nasty painful death soon. And suddenly these words of Hamlet's went round and round in my head

. . . If it be now,
'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be
now; if it be not now, yet it will come: the
readiness is all: since no man has aught of what he
leaves, what is't to leave betimes?

[vers la flamme]

Reading King Lear now. Language-wise, it's been the most challenging so far, but parts of it were extremely funny, like Kent (in disguise) absolutely tearing into Oswald:

Oswald. What dost thou know me for?
Kent. A knave, a rascal, an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggarly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking, whoreson, glass-gazing, superserviceable, finical rogue; one-trunk-inheriting slave; one that wouldst be a bawd in way of good service, and art nothing but the composition of a knave, beggar, coward, pander, and the son and heir of a mongrel bitch; one whom I will beat into clamorous whining if thou deniest me the least syllable of thy addition.

He escalates well beyond this in the subsequent pages, and gets thrown in the stocks for it I couldn't stop laughing when I read that scene.

[Mandryka]

Reading King Lear now. Language-wise, it's been the most challenging so far, but parts of it were extremely funny, like Kent (in disguise) absolutely tearing into Oswald:

He escalates well beyond this in the subsequent pages, and gets thrown in the stocks for it I couldn't stop laughing when I read that scene.

There's a very good scene in the Peter Brook film with Paul Scofield when he's thrown in the stocks, because it's set in the cold -- snow everywhere. And they remove his shoes and socks.

But in looking for it I found this, which I have never seen

[vers la flamme]

There's a very good scene in the Peter Brook film with Paul Scofield when he's thrown in the stocks, because it's set in the cold -- snow everywhere. And they remove his shoes and socks.

But in looking for it I found this, which I have never seen

Thanks, I shall watch this when I'm done with the play.

Recommendations for Hamlet or Othello? I was looking at the Olivier Hamlet, but it seems he makes some major cuts.

[Mandryka]

Thanks, I shall watch this when I'm done with the play.

Recommendations for Hamlet or Othello? I was looking at the Olivier Hamlet, but it seems he makes some major cuts.

For Hamlet, Peter Brook of course


 

[vers la flamme]

For Hamlet, Peter Brook of course


 

Thanks!

[Karl Henning]

There's a very good scene in the Peter Brook film with Paul Scofield when he's thrown in the stocks, because it's set in the cold -- snow everywhere.

I watched that one, back in the era when one might rent movies from Blockbuster.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Cuts are not the only problem with Olivier's Hamlet. I recommend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vABGEzB7T9M

[Karl Henning]

Cuts are not the only problem with Olivier's Hamlet. I recommend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vABGEzB7T9M

Nice! I'll watch, probably after the holidays.

At the risk of repeating myself, I recommend Grigory Kozintsev's films of Hamlet and King Lear, with brilliant scores by Shostakovich.

[ando]

Thanks, I shall watch this when I'm done with the play.

Recommendations for Hamlet or Othello? I was looking at the Olivier Hamlet, but it seems he makes some major cuts.

Man, I wish I could but I'm beginning to think Hamlet, the part, is an impossible one, though I do find, as KH notes, Kozintsev's take the most convincing (though the film's style is in many respects a nod to Oliver's version). Everybody else acts, which is in direct opposition to the direction Shakespeare gives in the Speak the speech soliloguy given by Hamlet. I wish I had seen Jude Law's turn on the stage in London (I believe he brought it to New York for a short engagement, though don't hold me to it). Of all the popular actors of my generation Law was born to play it.

Othello? Forget it. It's about a great Iago. If you don't have that the rest is mud. However noble Othello is (wish I has seen Paul Robeson in the role) in the end he's a jealous ass. At least Olivier wasn't afraid of egg on the face though the blackface performance at the height of the black liberation movement worldwide was a miscalculated one. Popular in England but understandably induced collective eye-rolling in the more progressive parts of the universe.

Wish I had seen James Earl Jones do it. But you asked for suggestions:

Hamlet: Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (1990, Tom Stoppard) Iain Glen, whose brief appearance as Hamlet is about as much of the morbid Dane as I can stand.
Othello: Othello (1951, Orson Welles) Micheál MacLiammóir's Iago is my cinematic favorite.

[Karl Henning]

Othello? Forget it. It's about a great Iago. If you don't have that the rest is mud.

I should revisit Welles' film. I recall liking it, its trouble production notwithstanding, and while I don't recall offhand who played Iago, it wouldn't be like Welles to handicap such a crucial role. (Micheál Mac Liammóir, I've now checked.)

[Karl Henning]

Man, I wish I could but I'm beginning to think Hamlet, the part, is an impossible one, though I do find, as KH notes, Kozintsev's take the most convincing (though the film's style is in many respects a nod to Oliver's version). Everybody else acts, which is in direct opposition to the direction Shakespeare gives in the Speak the speech soliloguy given by Hamlet. I wish I had seen Jude Law's turn on the stage in London (I believe he brought it to New York for a short engagement, though don't hold me to it). Of all the popular actors of my generation Law was born to play it.

Othello? Forget it. It's about a great Iago. If you don't have that the rest is mud. However noble Othello is (wish I has seen Paul Robeson in the role) in the end he's a jealous ass. At least Olivier wasn't afraid of egg on the face though the blackface performance at the height of the black liberation movement worldwide was a miscalculated one. Popular in England but understandably induced collective eye-rolling in the more progressive parts of the universe.

Wish I had seen James Earl Jones do it. But you asked for suggestions:

Hamlet: Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (1990, Tom Stoppard) Iain Glen, whose brief appearance as Hamlet is about as much of the morbid Dane as I can stand.
Othello: Othello (1951, Orson Welles) Micheál MacLiammóir's Iago is my cinematic favorite.

We crossed  😇

[ando]

I just saw a bit of the production with Jude Law and can't say I was impressed but I will give an honorable mention to the 2009 Gregory Doran directed RSC film with David Tennant; it's pretty well regarded as one of the best Hamlets of the new millennium. I didn't care for it at all.

If forced to sit through a film version again I have to say that the performance of the late Chris Plummer in Hamlet at Elsinore (1964) is the most entertaining. Plummer gives it his all without strain and an unusual amount of mirth. Robert Shaw is my favorite cinematic Claudius; if you have to swallow that Gertrude would sleep with the brother of her recently deceased husband Shaw makes a more than credible candidate. Curiously, the advice to the players scene is cut altogether. I suppose director, Philip Saville, felt he had a cast that didn't need it. 

[relm1]

I just saw a bit of the production with Jude Law and can't say I was impressed but I will give an honorable mention to the 2009 Gregory Doran directed RSC film with David Tennant; it's pretty well regarded as one of the best Hamlets of the new millennium. I didn't care for it at all.

If forced to sit through a film version again I have to say that the performance of the late Chris Plummer in Hamlet at Elsinore (1964) is the most entertaining. Plummer gives it his all without strain and an unusual amount of mirth. Robert Shaw is my favorite cinematic Claudius; if you have to swallow that Gertrude would sleep with the brother of her recently deceased husband Shaw makes a more than credible candidate. Curiously, the advice to the players scene is cut altogether. I suppose director, Philip Saville, felt he had a cast that didn't need it. 

Did you see "The Northman"?  It is a proto Hamlet and was very, very good.  Curious since you seem to be an expert in various incarnations of the play if you've seen it and your thoughts.  The trailer makes it look like an action film and though it's very brutal, it was based on the Danish/Viking legend of Amleth, known as the direct inspiration for William Shakespeare's Hamlet.

[ando]

Did you see "The Northman"?  It is a proto Hamlet and was very, very good.  Curious since you seem to be an expert in various incarnations of the play if you've seen it and your thoughts.  The trailer makes it look like an action film and though it's very brutal, it was based on the Danish/Viking legend of Amleth, known as the direct inspiration for William Shakespeare's Hamlet.

I'd heard of the film but hadn't realized that it was based on the Amleth story. Course, as soon as I read your post I looked up a streamer for a cursory glance, chiefly the intro, and was quite impressed with Ethan Hawke's entrance (don't think he'll ever have a better one in movies). Then he opened his mouth. All the initial magic was gone. Everyone else began to chime in with the same fake Icelandic-English brogue (though that term's usually reserved for native Irish and Scottish speakers). If were a silent picture think of how much better it would be! Or if they had speech bubbles instead of a spoken language soundtrack the film would immediately jump to another level artistically. It's essentially a kind of uber-violent kaleidoscopic comic book (nothing in the dialogue comes close to the language Shakespeare employed) so why not go all out? In other words, the language is obviously not up to the level of the superb visuals so 86 them altogether! I'm gonna try watching it with subtitles and the soundtrack turned off (along with some listenable death metal stuff) later on and I'll bet it'll be worth my kettle corn. Thanks!

[SimonNZ]

I've heard a couple of people I respect say their preferred filmed Hamlet is the Derek Jacobi in the big BBC box.

But its one I've yet to watch.

[Karl Henning]

I've heard a couple of people I respect say their preferred filmed Hamlet is the Derek Jacobi in the big BBC box.

But its one I've yet to watch.

Jacobi's Hamlet was an inspiration to the young Branagh.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I remember enjoying this film (actually saw in a real theater way back when) with Ethan Hawke--a modernized version.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_(2000_film)

PD

[(poco) Sforzando]

I remember enjoying this film (actually saw in a real theater way back when) with Ethan Hawke--a modernized version.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_(2000_film)

PD

I found that one surprisingly good! Bill Murray is an excellent Polonius.

For a traditional Hamlet, I prefer Burton. I have the complete BBC Shakespeare on DVD with Jacobi et al., but since my copy is region 2 I rarely put it on.

As for James Earl Jones, I don't think his complete Othello has been preserved, but you can find his King Lear which is pretty good, with a smashing Raul Julia as Edmund. For Othello, if the blackface disturbs you stay away from Olivier, but it's still a pretty incredible performance.