On-line Stores & Sellers

[Madiel]

To be honest I'm a bit surprised they ever showed you marketplace prices in that list. I find the Amazon listings so unreliable that I would always worry whether they were showing the right place for the right item. 

[VonStupp]

Thanks, but this option still doesn't show any of the lower-priced options available for the item. Probably I didn't explain my issue well enough. I used to be able to directly see marketplace "used & new" offerings for each item in the list. Now I have to click on each item and see if there are any good marketplace offerings. When you have a lot of items it becomes a bit of a hassle...I guess there's probably no way around this.

Gotcha! I hadn't used my wishlists in such a long time, I had trouble finding how to get to them.

Good luck!
VS

[Faliquid]

To be honest I'm a bit surprised they ever showed you marketplace prices in that list. I find the Amazon listings so unreliable that I would always worry whether they were showing the right place for the right item. 

It definitely used to do until a year ago or so. I see now that the same issue is talked about here: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/did-amazon-remove-marketplace-prices-from-wish-list-display.1169945/

Apparently it's a feature that will no longer be available.

And indeed, the listings have become much more unreliable a while ago. It used to be quite decent for me atleast.

[Brian]

Amazon is like many of the big tech companies in that their main "innovations" now are to remove useful features that don't actively make them more money.

[Que]

Amazon is like many of the big tech companies in that their main "innovations" now are to remove useful features that don't actively make them more money.

It seems Amazon is putting its energy in removing images and taking forever to "watermark" them (though they seems to have stopped with that nonsense, only to leave many items without a cover picture...) and matching wrong reviews with recordings, which you can't report since the have removed that feature as well. I mean....

But you could call some random student in India about it? 

[Spotted Horses]

You have to take Amazon for what it is, not what it doesn't try to be. It is not a curated web site for enthusiasts in a certain field, like presto classical or archivmusic. It is a site where you can have a recording of Braunfels string quartets, a box of corn flakes and a prefabricated house in the same shopping cart. It is a site where third party sellers, from corporate behemoths, to a guy in his parents' basement, can post listings that appear along side amazon's own listing. It runs a leading cloud computing service and the most efficient fulfillment system I've ever seen (in the U.S., I don't know about elsewhere). I can order something after the sun sets and have it on my doorstep when I get up in the morning. And yes, its listings are a mess (and not just for classical CDs) which is partly because so many third party sellers can corrupt it with incorrect or redundant listings.

I tolerate amazon's chaotic search because so often I find a used copy of a classical CD for far less cost than any of the proper web sites.

[DavidW]

I tolerate amazon's chaotic search because so often I find a used copy of a classical CD for far less cost than any of the proper web sites.

Just know that the seller is only getting half the money now.  If you can find the same seller off Amazon you can pay the same but the difference is that the store can actually make money.

And as for the search, it is not chaotic.  They know what they're doing.  They are prioritizing showing you sponsored content.  It makes them more money at your expense.

The reality is that Amazon doesn't have that edge on fastest shipping either anymore.  Most of their competitors are just as fast.  They're not really the best at anything, they just have the inertia of their customers keeping them within their ecosystem and with the wonders of their monopolistic status in so many areas they can treat the sellers and their own employees harshly.

[Spotted Horses]

Just know that the seller is only getting half the money now.  If you can find the same seller off Amazon you can pay the same but the difference is that the store can actually make money.

And as for the search, it is not chaotic.  They know what they're doing.  They are prioritizing showing you sponsored content.  It makes them more money at your expense.

The reality is that Amazon doesn't have that edge on fastest shipping either anymore.  Most of their competitors are just as fast.  They're not really the best at anything, they just have the inertia of their customers keeping them within their ecosystem and with the wonders of their monopolistic status in so many areas they can treat the sellers and their own employees harshly.

I don't know of any seller that is even close to amazon in terms of delivery time (in my area). When I talk about amazon's chaotic search I am referring to items listed under inappropriate keywords, the same item with redundant listings. I am aware that some offers will be invisible unless you click on "Other sellers on amazon." Your listing gets hidden there if various conditions are met, such as amazon finds out that you are selling the same product for less on another site. That is anti-competitive, and one of the issues in the anti-trust action currently being litigated.

When I am looking for an item I will check eBay and any other sites that seem relevant for the item. I am uncomfortable with amazon's dominance. I go with another site if a comparable deal is available, but I till not pay more if amazon has the best price.

[Madiel]

You have to take Amazon for what it is, not what it doesn't try to be. It is not a curated web site for enthusiasts in a certain field, like presto classical or archivmusic. It is a site where you can have a recording of Braunfels string quartets, a box of corn flakes and a prefabricated house in the same shopping cart. It is a site where third party sellers, from corporate behemoths, to a guy in his parents' basement, can post listings that appear along side amazon's own listing. It runs a leading cloud computing service and the most efficient fulfillment system I've ever seen (in the U.S., I don't know about elsewhere). I can order something after the sun sets and have it on my doorstep when I get up in the morning. And yes, its listings are a mess (and not just for classical CDs) which is partly because so many third party sellers can corrupt it with incorrect or redundant listings.

I tolerate amazon's chaotic search because so often I find a used copy of a classical CD for far less cost than any of the proper web sites.

Here's the thing: eBay does the same thing far better.

Amazon started as the store that sold you stuff, then went on to become the place where other people sold you stuff too. And because being a marketplace wasn't Amazon's core business, but something they could do because of their ridiculous level of market power, they're just not as good at it. The problem in my view IS, ironically enough, that Amazon is trying to be something that it shouldn't be trying to be: a marketplace instead of sticking to being a store.

The fundamental problem is their attempt to combine listings of a product into a single offer of the product as if it WAS a store. The crappy listings (including Amazon-fulfilled ones) infect the product page. On eBay a crappy listing is just a crappy listing, and you move onto other more reliable listings.

After a period where I was trying both I resolved to stick with eBay wherever possible. Even the customer service dealing with a problem was better.

[Madiel]

Oh, and I'll echo what's said about Amazon treating people like shit in order to achieve those prices and speeds. So long as consumers don't care, Amazon keeps winning.

Though why people care about speed so much has always mystified me. For most products speed makes no difference to anything in practice. When I'm going to own a CD for years and years I'm hardly going to remember exactly how many days it took to arrive.

[ritter]

...
Though why people care about speed so much has always mystified me. For most products speed makes no difference to anything in practice. When I'm going to own a CD for years and years I'm hardly going to remember exactly how many days it took to arrive.

Very much agree with this. Perhaps when something is ordererd as a present, speed can have its relevance, but for personal use? It I've lived for 60 years without this or that CD, I surely can pass another week without it...

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Just know that the seller is only getting half the money now.  If you can find the same seller off Amazon you can pay the same but the difference is that the store can actually make money.

And as for the search, it is not chaotic.  They know what they're doing.  They are prioritizing showing you sponsored content.  It makes them more money at your expense.

The reality is that Amazon doesn't have that edge on fastest shipping either anymore.  Most of their competitors are just as fast.  They're not really the best at anything, they just have the inertia of their customers keeping them within their ecosystem and with the wonders of their monopolistic status in so many areas they can treat the sellers and their own employees harshly.

Wow, the sellers are only getting half?!

PD

[Spotted Horses]

Wow, the sellers are only getting half?!

PD

I don't think that's true. Amazon has a complicated fee structure, including different fees for high volume sellers and individuals, fees if you want them to warehouse and ship the item for you, rather than ship yourself. For most items the referral fee is 15%.

https://sell.amazon.com/pricing?ld=SEUSSOAGOOG-sitelink-guide-D&tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=680818172056&hvpos=&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8530918420947856616&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=p&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031614&hvtargid=kwd-297281922160&ref=pd_sl_2vge9q2e84_b&ld=SEUSSOAGOOG-B10247B-TOPIS-D&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fraiekFbdW16LtlPZDFzMZQGCPDstyEGmf-KxK-A_RzHh0blFwUyrhoCJykQAvD_BwE

[Spotted Horses]

Here's the thing: eBay does the same thing far better.

I use eBay a lot, but eBay doesn't do what amazon does. For a classical CD I can search for a certain release and it may not be there at all, or there will be a smattering of hits including random things with similar keywords. On amazon I can search for a release and if it is in print it is there, and there is a partly obscured list of every seller who is offering it. Bottom line is I almost always check both. I currently have a used CD on the way (Gastinel/Guy, it was cheaper than the FLAC download). The most recent from amazon, about a month ago, a used CD with Hindemith sonatas (but have been cheaper than eBay options) and a Barbirolli/NYPhil set (amazon often has the best deal of recently released box sets).

[JBS]

Oh, and I'll echo what's said about Amazon treating people like shit in order to achieve those prices and speeds. So long as consumers don't care, Amazon keeps winning.

Though why people care about speed so much has always mystified me. For most products speed makes no difference to anything in practice. When I'm going to own a CD for years and years I'm hardly going to remember exactly how many days it took to arrive.

There is one advantage to using Amazon: their refund policies seem to keep the MP vendors honest. Twice in the last two months I've had MP vendors voluntarily refund a charge instead of going through lost in the mail loop-de-loop. Apparently both times they claimed to have an item in stock, dinged my card and claim it was shipped before ordering it from their distributor, only to find it wasn't available (or available at the price they based they listed it on Amazon).

As opposed to Arkivmusic, which twice this year I've had to badger about items supposedly in stock, but never shipped.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I don't think that's true. Amazon has a complicated fee structure, including different fees for high volume sellers and individuals, fees if you want them to warehouse and ship the item for you, rather than ship yourself. For most items the referral fee is 15%.

https://sell.amazon.com/pricing?ld=SEUSSOAGOOG-sitelink-guide-D&tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=680818172056&hvpos=&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8530918420947856616&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=p&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031614&hvtargid=kwd-297281922160&ref=pd_sl_2vge9q2e84_b&ld=SEUSSOAGOOG-B10247B-TOPIS-D&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fraiekFbdW16LtlPZDFzMZQGCPDstyEGmf-KxK-A_RzHh0blFwUyrhoCJykQAvD_BwE

Interesting.  I see that for media items that besides the 15% referral fee, there's also a $1.80 "closing fee" per item.  And, if I'm understanding this correctly, there are also selling plan fees (either $.99 per item, or one can choose the Professional Plan--currently $39.99/month).  Didn't check out the fees for Amazon to house and do the shipping for the seller.

PD

[Spotted Horses]

Interesting.  I see that for media items that besides the 15% referral fee, there's also a $1.80 "closing fee" per item.  And, if I'm understanding this correctly, there are also selling plan fees (either $.99 per item, or one can choose the Professional Plan--currently $39.99/month).  Didn't check out the fees for Amazon to house and do the shipping for the seller.

PD

I don't pretend to understand it. Perhaps the plan fee of $0.99 replaces the $1.80 fee. That's for the sellers to contemplate. I'm happy to follow them to wherever they post the morest attractive prices. importcds.com is a vendor I sometimes use, and they post different prices on their own site, on eBay and on amazon. Sometimes they sell things on eBay or amazon that are not available on their own site. It is a strange world.

[Spotted Horses]

I just received notice that grooves.land has shipped my ill-fated Monteux-RCA box, 6 days after I placed the order. Keeping fingers crossed that it doesn't vanish like the JPC shipment. I did get a letter in the mail from the USPS asking me to confirm that I didn't receive the JPC package as part of their lost package investigation.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

@Spotted Horses

I just did some quick calculations:  For a $10 CD, that would mean $4.29 going to Amazon (and not taking into calculations what fees Amazon would charge if the seller wanted them to warehouse the item and ship it for them). 

10 * 0.15
= 1.5

10 * 0.15 + 0.99 + 1.8
= 4.29


PD

p.s.  Just saw your post whilst I was typing mine.  I don't know...perhaps.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I just received notice that grooves.land has shipped my ill-fated Monteux-RCA box, 6 days after I placed the order. Keeping fingers crossed that it doesn't vanish like the JPC shipment. I did get a letter in the mail from the USPS confirming that I didn't receive the JPC package as part of their lost package investigation.

Knock on wood!  Hopefully, it will arrive and safe and sound (no pun intended!).

PD