Anna Netrebko

[knight66]

I have not bought into any of the hype, in fact I have only heard a couple of tracks on sampler discs and saw her sing Guilda at a Covent Garden big screen relay. I thought the voice was wrong for the part, too dark.

I had a look round YouTube, I liked this one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ztXynKERM&mode=related&search=

Though, Villazon seemed to me the better singer and his acting also seems to have more truth, Mrs Villazon would perhaps be worried watching this. Netrekbo is certainly stunning to look at. I would have liked Villazon to vary his volume rather more than he did here. I know he can sing quietly and ravishingly.

However, we then get to her singing on her own and I hear what I have detected before. Is it my imagination or does she sing off the note a lot, sharp? This is my main problem with her, she has a lot of what it takes to succeed, but I don't think I will be clammering for her discs any more than I already have been.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdN7qwjpUw&mode=related&search=

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

As to the first video, they weren't even together in the beginning, let alone in pitch with each other. It was more rewarding for me to stop looking and just listen to Villazon's heartful singing. Perhaps it was the distraction of her dress or the paucity of it that dissuaded him from relating to her in this particular role. (For Salome it would have been OK, though. Maybe she and Dessay have the same Parisian dressmaker.)

About sharpness, Marco Rothmuller told me back in 1982 it was OK for sopranos to do it just a bit in the upper range for brightness, Callas herself being a successful example. Of course, pitch should be calibrated to one's partner.

But I believe the problem is something else, aptly described as the pitch-intensity phenomenon in "Singing and Imagination" by Thomas Helmsley as the dampening of overtones caused by pushing or too much air pressure. While typing and listening to the second, I can't say that there were a lot of definite pitches, sharp or flat. This is REALLY typical of Slavic singing, though, a reason that I fairly can't stand it.

There's a repeating program on local TV and on Mezzo of a recent music gala in St. Petersberg where Netrebko sings a few arias. I usually switch the channel when she starts the "Regnava nel Silenzio" from Lucia as she doesn't seem to have a CLUE as to what she is singing, rather some kind of melody with unrecognizable syllables.

Instead, give me Rita Streich any day.

ZB

[knight66]

ZB, Thanks for that. I have this same problem with Regine Crespin. She is almost a sacred icon, so how could she be doing anything wrong?

However to my ears, I get this off pitch feeling and I find it so disturbing that I have none of her discs. Can you shed any light on it?


Oddly enough I also have Streich in the Lucia Mad Scene and she is utterly at sea, it could be a girl having a nice time for all the expression, despite the notes all being pingingly there.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

ZB, Thanks for that. I have this same problem with Regine Crespin. She is almost a sacred icon, so how could she be doing anything wrong?

However to my ears, I get this off pitch feeling and I find it so disturbing that I have none of her discs. Can you shed any light on it?

Mike

Er, what I have with Crespin, singing French, is right on. What recordings are you talking about?

ZB

[zamyrabyrd]

Oddly enough I also have Streich in the Lucia Mad Scene and she is utterly at sea, it could be a girl having a nice time for all the expression, despite the notes all being pingingly there.

Mike

Well, la pazza Lucia may be a heavier role than her coloratura voice was able to support. I personally don't associate her with the Italian roles so maybe it's also a matter of differing style. She was quite an artist in her own waters, refined singing, Lied, of course, not just soubrette. I was just listening to her Waltzes and Arias in all these languages: German, French, Italian, English, Russian and Czech, very convincing with a lot of imagination as well, excellent voice control and tone colouring.

ZB

[knight66]

Er, what I have with Crespin, singing French, is right on. What recordings are you talking about?

ZB

Les Nuits d'ete, exerpts of Troyans....everything I ever heard her in.

Mike

[zamyrabyrd]

Les Nuits d'ete, exerpts of Troyans....everything I ever heard her in.

Mike

I'll check if I have the first somewhere but for sure not the second. I got Kiri in the Nuits d'Ete. being satisfied in that, maybe that's why I didn't invest in any other recordings.

ZB

[Michel]

There are better videos than that of her on da tube, Mike. I am thinking of one where she is wearing black lingerie 

I have her "Russian Album". Unfortunately, I can't pass judgement as I am both a philistine and a hater of the female voice.

[knight66]

OK, well, just send me the album and it need not sully your collection. See how self sacrificing I am?

Mike

[Michel]

OK, well, just send me the album and it need not sully your collection. See how self sacrificing I am?

Although I hate her and probably her voice, I do not hate having a CD that forms a part of my one day gargantuan collection.

And no doubt, I will be able to listen to her (as well as any female role in any Strauss Opera) without it hurting my ears and making me want to turn it off.

[Maciek]

Well, I've only heard very little from Netrebko but none of it impressed me enough to search out more. Anyway, I'd like to thank you guys for pointing out the deficiencies of her singing. I don't have much of a trained ear and wouldn't have really noticed any of this by myself. In fact, when listening to the Traviata clip I didn't notice anything wrong for quite a while. But by 2:30 it became obvious that something is indeed wrong, and around the 4th minute it all turns into a total disaster (I am going to look for some more Villazon, though ). The Mozart aria is very, er... interesting. I mean the way the notes blend into each other to such an extent that you often can't tell them apart. And yes, now that I'm told I do notice that her pitch seems a little... undetermined (?) at times... (I don't even want to talk about the phrasing - normally I probably wouldn't have listened attentively enough to notice anything but now that I did give this a critical listen... I'm shocked). Generally I'd say there's a lot of... emotion (? hysteria? ) in her acting and singing but musically it is even less interesting.

Another thing I find really irritating is the wriggling around. Is all that swinging some part of vocal technique (I pity the cameraman!). Or is that what they call "generous musicianship"? I mean is she trying to equally "share" her prodigious voice with each and every nook and cranny of the hall, right, left, top and bottom?

I know, I know. She probably thinks she's acting I guess...

[Siedler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0cqizHnFH0
Here's a fresh clip, her singing Gavotte from Manon at Vienna in March. Thoughts? I'm not a fan of her coloratura singing in this one but her acting is superb.

[zamyrabyrd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0cqizHnFH0
Here's a fresh clip, her singing Gavotte from Manon at Vienna in March. Thoughts? I'm not a fan of her coloratura singing in this one but her acting is superb.

If you scroll down you will see la zamyrabyrd's comment...
"Aida transplanted out of Russia"...

ZB

[Tsaraslondon]

Les Nuits d'ete, exerpts of Troyans....everything I ever heard her in.

Mike

I read somewhere that we all hear voices differently. This is possibly the reason I never got on with Jessye Norman. I always heard her as flat, particularly in the Four Last Songs. I couldn't bear it. I just wanted to run for cover.

[zamyrabyrd]

I read somewhere that we all hear voices differently. This is possibly the reason I never got on with Jessye Norman. I always heard her as flat, particularly in the Four Last Songs. I couldn't bear it. I just wanted to run for cover.

I don't know if we hear voices differently, but perceive them as good or not so good according to our preferences, expectations, education, etc., etc.  I can understand where this perception of flatness might be coming from in the case of Norman. I have her Strauss songs where she seems to be pushing the breath which in turn dampens the overtones. So one could be technically on pitch but be perceived as flat. I went fairly nutz for at times with my own voice and couldn't stand hearing myself on tape because of that. My own listening made a sea change when I was FINALLY able to produce some free tones. And of course when that happens you have the proper mix of overtones. Then everything more of less falls into place including those voices you listen to as well.

ZB

[knight66]

ZB, Here is Crespin singing Strauss Ariadne.....the very start sounds very flat to me, it gets better, then things slide badly I feel.....what are you hearing here. By the side of her Norman sounds spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmQIOYmyVg&mode=related&search=

This seeming flatness of Crespin is what I hear all the time, can't get to grips with her.

Here is Norman who sounds superb to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7tl6uHol8

Mike

[knight66]

And here is a nice performance to fuel the discussion over Soprano/Mezzo. Shirley Verrett singing Isolde!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ty_RnFPHuY&mode=related&search=

Mike

[Tsaraslondon]

ZB, Here is Crespin singing Strauss Ariadne.....the very start sounds very flat to me, it gets better, then things slide badly I feel.....what are you hearing here. By the side of her Norman sounds spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmQIOYmyVg&mode=related&search=

This seeming flatness of Crespin is what I hear all the time, can't get to grips with her.

Here is Norman who sounds superb to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7tl6uHol8

Mike

I agree with you here, Mike. Crespin does seem badly off pitch at the beginning, though later she recovers. Norman on the other hand is bang on. I actually enjoyed her singing of the aria more than I expected, though I don't hear any special radiance in the closing stages, such as you hear from Schwarzkopf on the Karajan recording and Janowitz for Kempe. For me the voice never soars the way that I want it to in Strauss.

[zamyrabyrd]

ZB, Here is Crespin singing Strauss Ariadne.....the very start sounds very flat to me, it gets better, then things slide badly I feel.....what are you hearing here. By the side of her Norman sounds spot on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWmQIOYmyVg&mode=related&search=

This seeming flatness of Crespin is what I hear all the time, can't get to grips with her.
Here is Norman who sounds superb to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7tl6uHol8

Hi Mike,

I got the impression that Crespin was doing a sprech-stimme in the beginning but really Schwartzkopf did that sort of thing much better. Perhaps mezzos have a harder time carrying it off because the higher overtones give a ping to the speaking voice as well. And in a large hall combined with actual pitches, these overtones should really be there otherwise, sure, they can sound flat. As to Norman singing the same aria, it seems more suited for her as it is a soprano role anyway. Unfortunately she blasts out some Bb's and other high notes, completely unecessary for a voice of her stature. I wonder if having made a habit of this is the reason we don't hear a lot of her anymore. Pity.

Shirley Verrett doing Liebestod, I was going to say "no comment". Suffice to say that she seems to be straining to the limit of her voice in a role that sounds to me, at least in this instance, a bit too heavy for her.

ZB

[Tsaraslondon]

And here is a nice performance to fuel the discussion over Soprano/Mezzo. Shirley Verrett singing Isolde!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ty_RnFPHuY&mode=related&search=

Mike

Didn't Christa Ludwig record the Liebestod and some of Brunnhilde's music? She also sang the Dyer's Wife on stage. However, I seem to remember reading an interview with her somewhere, where she said that she had resisted offers to sing all sorts of dramatic soprano roles on stage, prefering to remain a mezzo. She had a pretty long career, so maybe she was right.