Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)

[Mandryka]

]

There is no way to capture the experience of hearing Beethoven for the first time

I think the idea is that they can recreate for moderns some aspects of the experiences of early audiences, not all aspects.

[lordlance]

Any recommendations for piano trio sets that use the fortepiano?

[Jo498]

Castle trio. The only problem is that their op. 70 is hard to find because it was only? published by the Smithsonian institution. opp.1,11, WoO and op.97 were on 2 EMI/Virgin twofers (the Archduke + Schubert #2).

[DavidW]

Any recommendations for piano trio sets that use the fortepiano?

[Gurn Blanston]

I have the entire Castle Trio set, I think it's excellent. YMMV.

[Jo498]

Was the Castle Trio ever issued as a set from Virgin, incl. op.70?
I don't know the harmonia mundi with Faust but op.70/1 is on an earlier issue with Sepec/Staier/Queyras. These 2 could complement the Castle's op.1+11+WoO.
AFAIK there are a few more at least of op.70/1 and probably op.97, e.g. one with Immerseel (Sony Vivarte).

[Karl Henning]

Yeah, nah (famous Australianism), I think the really great music of the past continues to be absolutely astonishing. I can remember first hearing things in Haydn and Mozart as well as Beethoven that had me enthralled, and still do.

Very good music has this property, at least to people who have listened to it a bit, and listened to a range of it, that in its own terms it can still be highly impressive and striking regardless of all subsequent music. If this weren't true there would be no interest in early music and music of any period before the present.

Yes. I have a (modest) number of Beethoven quartet cycles, greatly enjoy them all, and I simply lack any HIP concerns over the pieces.

[DavidW]

Was the Castle Trio ever issued as a set from Virgin, incl. op.70?
I don't know the harmonia mundi with Faust but op.70/1 is on an earlier issue with Sepec/Staier/Queyras. These 2 could complement the Castle's op.1+11+WoO.
AFAIK there are a few more at least of op.70/1 and probably op.97, e.g. one with Immerseel (Sony Vivarte).

Ah yes, the Immerseel is so good!  I chose that Faust recording because the fortepiano that Melnikov uses is an 1828 Graff that has a nice tone.  Easy on the ears for those that don't like fortepianos.

The Immerseel recording is also one of the first digital downloads I ever bought.

[Atriod]

I hate to be a dissenter without offering an alternative (it's the only HIP performance I've heard) but the performance of Archduke comes off as plinky plunky and lacking in sweep. Isabelle Faust also does not sound that attractive along with the sound of Melnikov's fortepiano.

[Madiel]

I'm all for music performed on period instruments using the styles and methods known for that day.  I'm not into odd thought experiments.

I find myself in enthusiastic agreement with you on this. Anyone hearing or playing this music in 2024 is going to do so with the awareness that it's music from the 1820s (even if not in those precise words). Recreating the sense that this is something new is simply not possible.

To the extent that late Beethoven has things that are radical and surprising and still capable of feeling radical and surprising (the Grosse Fugue definitely being an example), and the sense of its scale and scope (or it being long and boring depending on your reaction)... those things stem from the musical structure, not from using period instruments.

[DavidW]

I hate to be a dissenter without offering an alternative (it's the only HIP performance I've heard) but the performance of Archduke comes off as plinky plunky and lacking in sweep. Isabelle Faust also does not sound that attractive along with the sound of Melnikov's fortepiano.

A week passed, and I missed this post.  Yeah, I agree that it is an odd one.  And it turns out that Lordlance seems to have no problems with the instrument away.  He seems to be fully on board with Fortepiano recordings!

[Atriod]

A week passed, and I missed this post.  Yeah, I agree that it is an odd one.  And it turns out that Lordlance seems to have no problems with the instrument away.  He seems to be fully on board with Fortepiano recordings!

I like HIP and PI too, I just didn't like this performance of Archduke.

[Jo498]

As I said, I haven't heard the Faust et al. but other HIP options for the Archduke are findable, not only the Castle (EMI/Virgin twofer + Schubert D 929) but also Immerseel/Sony and probably another one or two. The elusive one is the underrated op.70/2 because the Castle recording is very hard to find (Smithsonian only?)

[Atriod]

I guess I was secretly hoping La Gaia Scienza would record it.

[Mandryka]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0021r14

Mariner Frolova-Walker picks five indispensable recordings of BBC Proms Composer Beethoven and explains why you need to hear them.

The answer is

Coriolan Overture, Op.62
Die Deutsche Kammerphilharmonie Bremen, Daniel Harding
Beethoven: Overtures (Virgin/Warner Classics)

Piano Sonata No.17 in D minor, Op.31 No.2 'Tempest'
Sviatoslav Richter
Beethoven: Piano Sonatas Nos. 12, 17, 22, 13 (Alto/Musical Concepts)

String Quartet No.9 in C major, Op.59 No.3
Quatuor Ebene
Beethoven Around the World: The Complete String Quartets (Erato)

An die ferne Geliebte, Op.98
Julian Prégardien, Christoph Schnackertz
An die Geliebte (Myrios Classics)

Symphony No.9 in D Minor, Op.125
Gwyneth Jones, Hanna Schwarz, René Kollo, Kurt Moll, Vienna State Opera Choir, Vienna Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein
Beethoven: 9 Symphonies (Deutsche Grammophon)

[Mandryka]

October 1803: On hearing Beethoven play the "Eroica" Symphony on his new Erard Frères piano, a witness remarked, "Heaven and Earth must shake at its performance." Inspired by this historical scene, Luca Montebugnoli has created a new arrangement of the symphony designed for and played on a unique replica of Beethoven's Erard piano.

[LKB]

Yes. I have a (modest) number of Beethoven quartet cycles, greatly enjoy them all, and I simply lack any HIP concerns over the pieces.

For me the Julliard Quartet, Quartetto Italiano, Hollywood Quartet and Alban Berg Quartet all share pride of place, with one ensemble temporarily withdrawing to allow another to tender their offerings depending on my needs of the moment.

When precision matters the most, Hollywood deliver with the greatest reliability.

When I seek the utmost in emotional commitment and honesty, I turn to the Italians.

For maximum contrapuntal balance and consistency, Alban Berg deliver.

Where Julliard are concerned, they are a special case as it was they who formed the first lense which revealed the scope of the Late Quartets to me while I was still in university. Hearing their recording of Opus 131 was revelatory, resulting in my realization that both epic structures and emotional catharsis are achievable without the need for great orchestral forces or inordinate length.

Where Berlioz uses four hundred musicians to evoke eternity, Beethoven gets by with four...

[Florestan]

Where Berlioz uses four hundred musicians to evoke eternity, Beethoven gets by with four...

Schubert's piano is more than enough... 

[Karl Henning]

Won't hear a word against Berlioz. He's capable of stirring delicacy, too.

[DavidW]

For me the Julliard Quartet, Quartetto Italiano, Hollywood Quartet and Alban Berg Quartet all share pride of place, with one ensemble temporarily withdrawing to allow another to tender their offerings depending on my needs of the moment.

For me Vegh (II), Smetana, and Prazak.