Mozart Piano Concertos

[DavidW]

Obviously Mozart is soloist, conductor, and plays all the instruments of the orchestra.
TD

Oh that is Mozart+God.

[Florestan]

Oh that is Mozart+God.

Good one. 

[George]

I think this was the only complete set of Mozart concertos that I wanted to try, but had yet to try, so when a cheap copy ($14.39) popped up today at my local used store, I grabbed it. I have always loved Ashkenazy's pianism and the set gets good reviews in my 2 classical review/guidebooks. I had read good things about the sound too, but when I pressed play, I was not very impressed with the sound or the playing in PC 5 and PC 6, but I will stick with it.

[Mandryka]

I think this was the only complete set of Mozart concertos that I wanted to try, but had yet to try, so when a cheap copy ($14.39) popped up today at my local used store, I grabbed it. I have always loved Ashkenazy's pianism and the set gets good reviews in my 2 classical review/guidebooks. I had read good things about the sound too, but when I pressed play, I was not very impressed with the sound or the playing in PC 5 and PC 6, but I will stick with it.

Is it Barenboim in the double concerto?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahUywqTYKow

[George]

Is it Barenboim in the double concerto?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahUywqTYKow

Yes, and in the Concerto for Three Pianos (with Fou Ts'ong.)

[George]

As I listen through this set, I am finding that it is really growing on me. His slow movements are tender, beautiful and moving. Many times while listening to this set, I have found that Ashkenazy's playing made me stop and take notice of the music. And the sound, while variable between concertos, is wonderfully warm and rich for many of the concertos. I am on the penultimate disc, but I have already found a place for it on my main shelves, right next to Barenboim, Perahia, Brendel and Schiff's sets. 

[Elgarian Redux]

Very recently I've started listening to this set:



I've currently listened to the first 3 discs.

Very good performances in excellent sound. Highly recommended.

This reminds me of an experiment I carried out 14 years ago. I'd bought this Annerose Schmidt set, the Sofronitski HIP set (which I was very enthusiastic about), and the Brendel set, and was finding huge differences between them. I wrote about this at the time to a friend, and it might be of mild interest now to quote what I said then:

I'm having a very interesting time exploring Mozart's piano concertos. I have three sets that I'm comparing with each other: a HIP set, played by Viviana Sofronitzki on fortepiano, and original instruments throughout; a cheap German set with Annerose Schmidt, recorded in the 70s; and a famous set by Alfred Brendel recorded in the 80s. I've started by listening to the 25th concerto. The differences are very substantial - it's extraordinary to think that they're all intended to be presenting the same music!
 
The Brendel is silky smooth, rippling with legato, brilliantly executed - and, to my mind, sacrificing feeling for technique. It's just too romantic, and there's no humour. It's beautiful, but it never makes me smile.

The Sofronitskzki is packed with crunchy HIP sounds, bristling with life and fun.
 
And the Schmidt is the real dark horse. From a review I'd read, I'd expected mediocrity, but surely this is very fine playing. Nowhere near as smooth as Brendel, but far more responsive to little changes of mood, and moving like a living pulse through the music. It all goes to show that there's a lot more to the business than mere HIPness.

The interesting thing is that, 14 years on, I find the Schmidt/Masur set is the one I turn to most often.

[Elgarian Redux]

The interesting thing is that, 14 years on, I find the Schmidt/Masur set is the one I turn to most often.

Following up on this not very important Annerose Schmidt story, here's something you don't see very often: it's a nice thing to keep in the Mozart box set.

[Roasted Swan]

This reminds me of an experiment I carried out 14 years ago. I'd bought this Annerose Schmidt set, the Sofronitski HIP set (which I was very enthusiastic about), and the Brendel set, and was finding huge differences between them. I wrote about this at the time to a friend, and it might be of mild interest now to quote what I said then:

The interesting thing is that, 14 years on, I find the Schmidt/Masur set is the one I turn to most often.

Very interesting to read this and your previous post/letter.  Of course, this example touches on a braoder truth.  Just because an artist is/was widely recorded neither means they are the final/only/best interpreter of any given piece.  When I worked in Italy for an opera house we had an Italian conductor for Rossini's "Barbiere di Sevilla".  Absolute nailed on great conductor in that repertoire.  He knew every note, every expressive inflection and nuance.  He conducted with joy and flair and inspiration for players and singers - his name Angelo Campori.  His discography...... next to nothing.  But one of the finest conductors I have ever worked with bar none.

[Mandryka]

This reminds me of an experiment I carried out 14 years ago. I'd bought this Annerose Schmidt set, the Sofronitski HIP set (which I was very enthusiastic about), and the Brendel set, and was finding huge differences between them. I wrote about this at the time to a friend, and it might be of mild interest now to quote what I said then:

The interesting thing is that, 14 years on, I find the Schmidt/Masur set is the one I turn to most often.

Thanks for mentioning -- I just listened to to PC 24 -- it's really well done. 

[Elgarian Redux]

this example touches on a braoder truth.  Just because an artist is/was widely recorded neither means they are the final/only/best interpreter of any given piece.

Indeed. And there's another principle at work here too, about what, exactly, we should be trying to do as listeners. Should we be trying to train ourselves to recognise and enjoy the most authoritatively applauded recordings/performances, or should we be chasing the finest listening experience we can achieve, regardless of the accepted status of the performance? I know this is an almost ludicrously simplistic way of looking at it, and the answer may seem obvious, but I confess that I have sometimes found myself struggling to enjoy a recorded performance which has come with a high reputation, and being disappointed to find that I can't, quite.

The point I'm making is that there's no 'canon' of fine performances which we should aspire to enjoy. There's only the individual experience of the music; and the potential of a particular recording to stimulate the best musical experience isn't the same for everyone. And if Jack finds that the best experience of Mozart's PCs comes via Annerose Schmidt, rather than Jill's favourite Alfred Brendel, then that would be a Good Thing for both Jack and Jill, and it maximises the sum total of musical enjoyment going on.

Hmmm. This was just blindingly obvious wasn't it? Sorry. I just sort of started and kept going because I'd just discovered that Annerose Schmidt died 2 years ago, and felt sad about it.

[Florestan]

Should we be trying to train ourselves to recognise and enjoy the most authoritatively applauded recordings/performances, or should we be chasing the finest listening experience we can achieve, regardless of the accepted status of the performance?

We should absolutely do neither. What we should do is enjoying (or not) the moment. If what we hear hic et nunc is satisfactory to us, then the music is good and so is the performance --- and if no, no.

[Florestan]

Very interesting to read this and your previous post/letter.  Of course, this example touches on a braoder truth.  Just because an artist is/was widely recorded neither means they are the final/only/best interpreter of any given piece.  When I worked in Italy for an opera house we had an Italian conductor for Rossini's "Barbiere di Sevilla".  Absolute nailed on great conductor in that repertoire.  He knew every note, every expressive inflection and nuance.  He conducted with joy and flair and inspiration for players and singers - his name Angelo Campori.  His discography...... next to nothing.  But one of the finest conductors I have ever worked with bar none.

Entirely congruent with the spirit of Rossini himself.

Music is something to be enjoyed here and now --- abstract post facto analysis is food for critics and musicologists, two categories which might be very knowledgeable about music but which might not necessarily like it. 

[Elgarian Redux]

We should absolutely do neither. What we should do is enjoying (or not) the moment. If what we hear hic et nunc is satisfactory to us, then the music is good and so is the performance --- and if no, no.

This is wisdom. Pure Florestan.

[Florestan]

This is wisdom. Pure Florestan.

Likewise, my friend, likewise. 

[DavidW]

We should absolutely do neither. What we should do is enjoying (or not) the moment. If what we hear hic et nunc is satisfactory to us, then the music is good and so is the performance --- and if no, no.

Yes, it is Mozart! Just enjoy his wonderful music; don't overthink it. I have my favorites, but I love to listen to something random from anyone who wants to play him. One of my favorite things is to close my eyes and randomly grab a CD from the Mozart Edition. I also like typing "Mozart" into Qobuz and then just clicking on a work I haven't listened to in a while, no matter the performer.

[Florestan]

Yes, it is Mozart! Just enjoy his wonderful music; don't overthink it. I have my favorites, but I love to listen to something random from anyone who wants to play him. One of my favorite things is to close my eyes and randomly grab a CD from the Mozart Edition. I also like typing "Mozart" into Qobuz and then just clicking on a work I haven't listened to in a while, no matter the performer.

That's the spirit, David! That's the spirit! 

On a more general note, to overthink (whatever) music is to killjoy it. 

[George]

After listening to this set a second time this week, I wanted to summarize my current thoughts on the sets that I own.

I like that Perahia's set is light and breezy. And complete. I think it's a great, middle of the road set.

Anda is more energetic, but in poorer sound.

Uchida has excellent sound, but her set is incomplete and her performances are too introverted.

Barenboim is extroverted, more romantic than most, but perhaps also heavier than this music needs.

Schiff has the best conducting (Vegh), but also the most recessed piano. Great overall sound though.

Brendel has good sound, is complete and great piano clarity. If I were to pick a favorite, it would be him, if it were not for

Ashkenazy, who has many of the above positive qualities, all in one complete set. His slow movements have great depth, beauty and tenderness, but outer movements aren't as heavy as Barenboim. Excellent sound with a clear piano image. 

[AnotherSpin]

I like that Perahia's set is light and breezy. And complete. I think it's a great, middle of the road set.

Anda is more energetic, but in poorer sound.

Uchida has excellent sound, but her set is incomplete and her performances are too introverted.

Barenboim is extroverted, more romantic than most, but perhaps also heavier than this music needs.

Schiff has the best conducting (Vegh), but also the most recessed piano. Great overall sound though.

Brendel has good sound, is complete and great piano clarity. If I were to pick a favorite, it would be him, if it were not for

Ashkenazy, who has many of the above positive qualities, all in one complete set. His slow movements have great depth, beauty and tenderness, but outer movements aren't as heavy as Barenboim. Excellent sound with a clear piano image. 

if it were not for - what?

[DavidW]

@George no Zacharias, no Katsaris? There are modern recordings out there you might consider exploring.