The Most Important LvB Piano Sonata Cycle Comparison in the History of the World

[Mandryka]

What are your impressions of Minsoo Sohn? He is being praised in this thread, and I have re-listened to him again a couple of times. Each time there is a clear association with Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale The Nightingale.

Well said. I've only heard him in the last three sonatas - they are magnificent and I can fully understand how they do indeed work the magic of a benevolent force of nature like  Hans Andersen's nightingale. Totally life affirming, joyful music making, strong without a hint of bombast. Lots of sublimated fire in the op 111 variations.  I may listen to op 106 later.

[Todd]

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[George]

I appreciate the results of your efforts. Thanks - very entertaining.

Same here!

[(poco) Sforzando]

Op 10/2

Annie Fischer – Zippier and rougher in the Allegro than Lucchesini, the playing sounds intensely fun.  In the second movement, Menuetto outer sections have tension and the trio sounds nearly bouncy, rhythmically speaking.  The (repeatless – boo!) Presto retains the bounce and though biting and heavier, is also high end stuff.

Small point, but in the finale Annie takes the first repeat - one of Beethoven's tiniest expositions - but not the second. Here since the two sections are exactly identical, a capable user of any sound editing program could restore the missing repeat very easily. This finale is in my opinion one of the most technically difficult movements in all of Beethoven. It's full of tricky repeated notes, scales, and broken octaves, even a few little trills that must be played on the weakest 4-5 fingers, and the whole must be played with utmost rhythmic precision at a very fast tempo. I've blundered my way through it numerous times. Charles Rosen heard in this movement the first precursor of Mendelssohn's style.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Op 10/3
Minsoo Sohn – Cool, quick, occasionally cutting, with mammoth dynamic swings, and perfectly realized and regulated tempo changes, Sohn delivers a humdinger of an opening Presto.  The Largo is slow, serious as atherosclerosis, dramatic, with more of those big ol' dynamic swings, and tension aplenty.  Yes, indeed, the climax is hard-hitting and powerful.  The outer sections of the Menuetto offer both delicacy and firmness in perfect measure and the trio is quick, pokey 'n' punchy, and fun, or something approaching it.  The Rondo starts with some seriously colorful playing and then moves into quick but perfectly controlled playing, with nary a note length nor dynamic level even one iota out of place.  A monster recording.

Official Scientific Ranking
Minsoo Sohn - 1

Wow, Minsoo Sohn is really cleaning up here. I'll have to start listening to his downloads more seriously, and I'm sure the Yunchan fans on his Facebook adoration page will be pleased to hear such a favorable report of his teacher. This sonata is the biggest and grandest of the series so far, with a profound slow movement that I've always enjoyed playing. Actually, most of the slow movements in the sonatas are of only moderate technical difficulty, because (duh) they're slow. Even 106 is very playable and I've read through it countless times. For technical difficulty in a slow movement, the one that really stands out is 111, what with the boogie-woogie variation and the very difficult double trills.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Op 10/2

Andrea Lucchesini – The (repeatless – boo!) Presto has ample boogie and drive and fun.  High end stuff.

Annie Fischer – The (repeatless – boo!) Presto retains the bounce and though biting and heavier, is also high end stuff.

Arthur Schnabel – the (repeatless – boo!) Presto bebops along to a satisfying conclusion. 

Daniel-Ben Pienaar – The (repeatless – boo!) Presto is zany and comically fast and mucho effective.  One of the very best.

Again, since there are no first/second endings to either repeated section in the Allegro or Finale, a reasonably competent sound editor could splice in these repeats seamlessly, for those who wish them. (Even Toscanini left out the repeat in the first movement of Symphony 5, which drives me crazy, but again it could be easily spliced in. Editing the missing repeat in the finale is not possible however, because there is a first and second repeat. But you could come close.)

[Hobby]

I love the 'serious as atherosclerosis' for Minsoo Sohn here. On serious listening to him you are obviously more impressed than when you did the quick comparison with Scherbakov some time back.
I was wondering whether your scientific approach involved randomising the order of assessment for each Sonata to avoid risk of ennui for the later ones in the list. But expect you went for many repeat comparisons to avoid that?

[Jo498]

The inconsistent repeat policy in Lucchesini might be due to this being from live concerts but I am also annoyed by some of them. (I probably don't care enough about op.10/2 to care about the repeats, but the repeat free 1st movement of op.2/1 makes the piece imbalanced as the first movement just becomes too short at under 3 min)
I agree that op.10/3 is one of Gilels' best (there is an even more passionate live recording on Brilliant), so is his op.2/3.

[Todd]

Again, since there are no first/second endings to either repeated section in the Allegro or Finale, a reasonably competent sound editor could splice in these repeats seamlessly, for those who wish them.

Lucchesini's recording is taken from a recital performance.  Schnabel recorded in the 78s era and chose to exclude the repeat, and it is as live as Lucchesini's take.  St Annie chose cuts in her famously stitched together recording.  Pienaar excluded it purposely in one of the most meticulously put together cycles out there, to the point where the recorded sound is purposely variable and un-SOTA.  Recordings are taken as presented since they represent choices approved of by the artists.  I say boo! to some of those choices.

Worse cuts are made in some upcoming recordings.

I was wondering whether your scientific approach involved randomising the order of assessment for each Sonata to avoid risk of ennui for the later ones in the list.

I initially planned to listen in sonata order and pianist order, by first name, but abandoned that after 2/2.  I jumped around the remaining thirty sonatas and randomly listened to the thirteen or fourteen recordings for each sonata selected.  I did end with Op 111, though, as that is the only proper way to go.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Recordings are taken as presented since they represent choices approved of by the artists.  I say boo! to some of those choices.

I do too, but it's not invariably clear that these choices were approved by the artists. The drop of 8 measures in 57 on Kempff mono was clearly not his choice. Distler, in reviewing Elly Ney's Beethoven on one of the DG boxes, makes the point:

I must mention one questionable editorial decision. In order to squeeze all of Elly Ney's stylish yet rough-hewn DG solo Beethoven sides on to a single disc, the producers edited out the "Appassionata" third-movement repeat that the pianist originally observed. Not only does this falsify Ney's interpretation, but it also goes against Beethoven's specific directive.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/big-boxes-dgs-mono-era/?search=1

Editing errors may in other words supersede and falsify artists' intentions at times. It was pointed out to me by a friend that in the Sony Stravinsky box, there is an error in the 2nd movement of Jeu de Cartes where one of the variations has an extra repeat not found on the original LPs, and I was able to edit the WAV file to seamlessly remove the spurious measures. If I had sufficient time or interest, therefore, I would reinstate some of Beethoven's repeats in these sonatas despite what the artist may have chosen. I have done so with Toscanini's LvB 67; the repeat is what the composer wanted.

Worse cuts are made in some upcoming recordings.

No doubt.

[Todd]

I do too, but it's not invariably clear that these choices were approved by the artists.

It is in the four cited examples, and every recording from those four cycles.

[(poco) Sforzando]

It is in the four cited examples, and every recording from those four cycles.

Sure, but as the consumer of these recordings, I can edit them as I wish for my own private listening so long as I don't share my edited versions with others or use them for any commercial purpose. CDs are not copy-protected. With the Stephen Hough Rachmaninoff concerto cycle, I didn't like hearing the audience applause, and I edited it out. With Bernstein's first Missa Solemnis, I didn't like that Sony put it out on two CDs when it would easily fit on one, and I made my own 1-CD version while also keeping the original discs.

[Todd]

Sure, but as the consumer of these recordings, I can edit them as I wish for my own private listening so long as I don't share my edited versions with others or use them for any commercial purpose. CDs are not copy-protected. With the Stephen Hough Rachmaninoff concerto cycle, I didn't like hearing the audience applause, and I edited it out. With Bernstein's first Missa Solemnis, I didn't like that Sony put it out on two CDs when it would easily fit on one, and I made my own 1-CD version while also keeping the original discs.

The changes you mention seem rather different than adding back cuts.  In any event, I just listen to recordings.

[(poco) Sforzando]

The changes you mention seem rather different than adding back cuts.  In any event, I just listen to recordings.

I usually do too, but in the one case it's just snipping out material and the other it's a copy-paste making sure I have the rhythms correct so that the join is seamless. In any event, I no longer have the zeal to do such things as when I was younger. It's just not important enough for me any more.

[Mandryka]

Minsoo Sohn in the 10/3 largo has a real operatic aria vibe - think Suicido from La Gioconda. I think that's a bit of a fresh take on it actually - perfectly valid. Whether you like the result is just taste.

[AnotherSpin]

Well said. I've only heard him in the last three sonatas - they are magnificent and I can fully understand how they do indeed work the magic of a benevolent force of nature like  Hans Andersen's nightingale. Totally life affirming, joyful music making, strong without a hint of bombast. Lots of sublimated fire in the op 111 variations.  I may listen to op 106 later.

I was meaning the second, artificial bird that sang by rote, the one which was praised by music master beyond measure

[Mandryka]

I was meaning the second, artificial bird that sang by rote, the one which was praised by music master beyond measure

 

Well I don't think you're right to say he sings by rote.

[AnotherSpin]

Well I don't think you're right to say he sings by rote.

Maybe, but I definitely hear something mechanical, too right and perfect to be natural.

[Mandryka]

Maybe, but I definitely hear something mechanical, too right and perfect to be natural.

That's South Korean training -- like in K-pop.

[Todd]

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