The Most Important LvB Piano Sonata Cycle Comparison in the History of the World

[DavidW]

Yes, the Annie Fischer Pathetique is one of my favorite solo piano recordings of anything!  I should give it a listen today when I'm done with Mozart.

[Todd]

That's South Korean training -- like in K-pop.

He studied at the New England Conservatory, and he counts Russell Sherman among his teachers.  If I didn't know better, I'd say your post was a bit questionable in terms of cultural assumptions. 

[Jo498]

While I think Rudolf Serkin's solo Beethoven is somewhat overrated overall, his would probably be the Pathetique I'd pick, if I could have only one, partly because I think the philologically disputed repeat of the Grave makes a lot of sense.

[George]

Moravec is my favorite Pathetique.

[AnotherSpin]

That's South Korean training -- like in K-pop.

Yes

[Todd]

I do so enjoy seeing forum experts on Korean culture post about Korean culture.  It's most informative.  I'll bet these experts read an interwebs article on the topic.  Maybe two.  Perhaps even zero.

[Hobby]

A quarter of the way through, 8 of 32.
Aggregate positions so far

1 Minsoo Sohn 14 points
2 Annie Fischer 25
3 Andrea Lucchesini 26
4 Irina Mejoueva 41
5 Daniel-Ben Pienaar 43
6= Artur Schnabel 59
6= Wilhelm Kempff (M) 59
8 Yu Kosuge 71
9 Wilhelm Kempff (S) 73
10 Wilhelm Backhaus (M) 80
11 Russell Sherman 81
12 Eric Heidsieck 82
13 Friedrich Gulda 88
14 Emil Gilels 84+ (1 missing)

[Mandryka]

Re op 10/3 largo - I hope noone will mind if I put this here, it just seems where the Beethoven action is - anyway, the 10/3 largo seems like one of those Mozart piano fantasies. Same genre.

I want to hear Uchida play it! Live! I've learned she's better live.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Maybe, but I definitely hear something mechanical, too right and perfect to be natural.

I haven't yet heard MSS's Beethoven in any depth, but as likely the only person here who has heard him live, I would dispute that claim. His Liszt Transcendental Etudes were thrilling. What would you say about his famous young student, Yunchan Lim, who took the Cliburn at age 18 and has a similarly flawless technique, as well as exciting many audiences with the sensitivity and dynamism of his playing?

[Todd]

I haven't yet heard MSS's Beethoven in any depth, but as likely the only person here who has heard him live, I would dispute that claim.

The claim about Sohn's playing is prima facie false.  Multiple airings prove conclusively that the claim is buffoonish.

[(poco) Sforzando]

While I think Rudolf Serkin's solo Beethoven is somewhat overrated overall, his would probably be the Pathetique I'd pick, if I could have only one, partly because I think the philologically disputed repeat of the Grave makes a lot of sense.

This is an interesting idea, as the manuscript is lost and (according to Rosen in his book on the sonatas) the first edition is unclear on this point. However, both the Henle and Schenker editions (the only ones I own at present) start the repeat with the Allegro, and Rosen concurs without disputing the reasonableness of repeating the Grave. I have played it for myself both ways, and though the Grave is great fun to pound out on my home piano, I favor restarting from the Allegro. Why? well, for one thing the introduction is very long, and like the exposition it modulates from C minor to E-flat major (though the second subject of the exposition starts in E-flat minor). So if the introduction is repeated, then this modulation is heard four times instead of three.

The idea of repeating material from the introduction to a first movement is something Beethoven might have learned from Mozart's D major quintet, and he does it occasionally in later works - the Tempest sonata and the opp. 127 and 130 quartets come to mind. But normally, as in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 7th symphonies and the Quartets opp. 59/3 and 74, once the introduction is over, it's gone for good just like the Tchaikovsky 1st piano concerto.

PS If I were to tinker electronically with Serkin, I'd drop his repeat of the Grave.

[AnotherSpin]

I haven't yet heard MSS's Beethoven in any depth, but as likely the only person here who has heard him live, I would dispute that claim. His Liszt Transcendental Etudes were thrilling. What would you say about his famous young student, Yunchan Lim, who took the Cliburn at age 18 and has a similarly flawless technique, as well as exciting many audiences with the sensitivity and dynamism of his playing?

I have not had the opportunity to hear Minsoo Sohn in concert, I am only aware of his performances of some of Beethoven's sonatas. His interpretations seem to me flawless externally and hollow internally. I don't recall listening to any of his Liszt recordings.

[Brian]

well, for one thing the introduction is very long, and like the exposition it modulates from C minor to E-flat major (though the second subject of the exposition starts in E-flat minor). So if the introduction is repeated, then this modulation is heard four times instead of three.

This is what convinced me. Initially I really enjoyed the idea of returning to the introduction, because the exposition sets itself up so well to do so. It's very satisfying to get to that climax and then hear that dramatic first chord again. Feels like a payoff in a way that repeats rarely do. But...then you just hear that introductory material and those modulations too many times. The whole movement becomes sort of a giant ABABABAB form.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I have not had the opportunity to hear Minsoo Sohn in concert, I am only aware of his performances of some of Beethoven's sonatas. His interpretations seem to me flawless externally and hollow internally. I don't recall listening to any of his Liszt recordings.

He hasn't recorded Liszt. Not all pianists record everything in their repertoire. I do not know what "hollow internally" means.

[AnotherSpin]

He hasn't recorded Liszt. Not all pianists record everything in their repertoire. I do not know what "hollow internally" means.

No problem.

[Todd]

He hasn't recorded Liszt.

He has recorded some Liszt:



He has also recorded the Goldbergs, and so far those along with the 32 are his only recordings.

[(poco) Sforzando]

He has recorded some Liszt:



He has also recorded the Goldbergs, and so far those along with the 32 are his only recordings.

Oops. My bad. I didn't know about that Liszt recording.

[prémont]

I am only aware of his performances of some of Beethoven's sonatas. His interpretations seem to me flawless externally and hollow internally.

I've listened to some Beethoven sonata clips on Sohn's homepage. They remind me of Gieseking, although Sohn's technical precision and the recording quality seem far better.

[(poco) Sforzando]

This is what convinced me. Initially I really enjoyed the idea of returning to the introduction, because the exposition sets itself up so well to do so. It's very satisfying to get to that climax and then hear that dramatic first chord again. Feels like a payoff in a way that repeats rarely do. But...then you just hear that introductory material and those modulations too many times. The whole movement becomes sort of a giant ABABABAB form.

I agree that returning to the first C minor chord following the first exposition is very satisfying, but I think there are problems restating the entire Grave. Not only what you say, but the Grave occurs - briefly! - following the second exposition, to transition from G minor to E minor at the start of the development. Then once more again briefly to start the coda, following a crashing F# diminished seventh at the end of the recap, where here the V9/IV progression provides the usual subdominant balance. That's three undisputed statements of the introductory material; would not another (i.e., a repeat of the whole introduction) be superfluous?

(Does anybody besides Serkin repeat the entire Grave? A question for Todd.)

[Mandryka]

He hasn't recorded Liszt. 

Oh yes he has

https://open.spotify.com/album/5JGzC06xholn8Vf0H1tYGl

I can also let you have an upublished recording from his QE competition -- Rach 3, Mozart PC 24,  LvB 22, Schumann Carnival and a Haydn sonata (60 is the number on the tag -- but Haydn numbering is weird.)