The Most Important LvB Piano Sonata Cycle Comparison in the History of the World

[Mandryka]

I think Gilels' live Concertgebau recording of this one shows him in a better light. I find what he does really touching in the first movement, much more so than Sainte Annie - which is a bit too much like inflated and pompous bluster for me. I don't hear it as flowing like you do @Todd, but that may be because I'm drunk slightly. Will check Mejoueva later.

[Todd]

I think Gilels' live Concertgebau recording of this one shows him in a better light.

Is it part of a complete cycle?

which is a bit too Beethoven style for me

Beethoven that's too Beethoven in style.  Hmmm. 

[Mandryka]

Is it part of a complete cycle?


Beethoven that's too Beethoven in style.  Hmmm.

You're too quick - I was editing that so as not to cause too much contention!

[Mandryka]

Is it part of a complete cycle?

No. Here are some details

https://www.challengerecords.com/products/15209518455077/The%20Unreleased%20Recitals%20at%20The%20Concertgebouw%201975%20-%201976%20-%201978%20-%201979%20-%201980

[Todd]

No. Here are some details

https://www.challengerecords.com/products/15209518455077/The%20Unreleased%20Recitals%20at%20The%20Concertgebouw%201975%20-%201976%20-%201978%20-%201979%20-%201980

It was a rhetorical question.  Of course it's not part of a complete or meant to be complete cycle, and therefore its relative merits are irrelevant in the context of a thread devoted to using scientific rigor to determine the best available complete or meant to be complete cycle.  This thread is not about finding the best recorded version of each sonata.  That is an entirely different undertaking. 

[Mandryka]

It was a rhetorical question.  Of course it's not part of a complete or meant to be complete cycle, and therefore its relative merits are irrelevant in the context of a thread devoted to using scientific rigor to determine the best available complete or meant to be complete cycle.  This thread is not about finding the best recorded version of each sonata.  That is an entirely different undertaking.

I understand, and what I'm really looking forward to is some analysis of whether there are cycles which you found particularly rewarding for early or middle or late sonatas.

By the way, revisiting Gilels DG one thing I didn't enjoy is the DG sound engineering.

[AnotherSpin]

I think Gilels' live Concertgebau recording of this one shows him in a better light. I find what he does really touching in the first movement, much more so than Sainte Annie - which is a bit too much like inflated and pompous bluster for me. I don't hear it as flowing like you do @Todd, but that may be because I'm drunk slightly. Will check Mejoueva later.

Agree about Fischer. It feels like she couldn't find the right path and chose to just bang on the keys as hard as she could. The sound quality in her recording of this sonata is also somewhat archaic.

Opus 26 seems to me a rather strange piece. Almost everyone's third movement comes off overly pathetic.

From the selected versions I've re-listened to, Gulda's was better.

[Brian]

but that may be because I'm drunk slightly.

Wow, you had a good Monday lunch!

[(poco) Sforzando]

Listening to music in chronological order isn't always necessary or even ideal. However, the seemingly random arrangement of sonatas in Annie's set might impair the overall experience. If this bothers me enough, I'll create a personal CDR copy with the sonatas arranged in my preferred sequence.

Looking more closely, I'd say the "seemingly random" arrangement may be not random after all, but structured on the basis of key relationships. E.g.:

CD1 - 12 in Ab, 6 in F, 31 in Ab, 13 in Eb
CD4 - 18 in Eb, 29 in Bb
CD6 - 23 in f, 17 in d, 15 in D
CD8 - 5 in c, 23 in C, 4 in Eb

Not perfect, but the best explanation I can provide.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Technically, op. 26 is of moderate difficulty, with the most challenging movements being the scherzo and the finale, and the easiest the funeral march. Rosen tells us this was the favorite Beethoven sonata of Chopin (who in general did not much care for Beethoven); did he perhaps take a hint from the funeral march for his own 2nd sonata?

Formally, an interesting feature is that this is the only one of the sonatas, and offhand the only large-scale Beethoven work I can think of, that lacks a movement in sonata-allegro form: variations, ABA scherzo, ABA march, rondo. (In both op. 27 sonatas, sonata-allegro is reserved for the finale - though the finale of 27/1 lacks an exposition repeat for the first time I know of in Beethoven, and the opening slow movement of the Moonlight can be described as sonata-form without repeat but with some unusual features. But I'm getting ahead of myself.)

[Florestan]

French pianists are rare among the elitist of elite cycles

Do you have any explanation for this fact?

[Florestan]

Science evolves.

Whereas fixation stays the same.

[Mandryka]

At some point, maybe, I'll compare and contrast Schnabel with Yves Nat and Claude Frank.


I've just put Claude Frank's op 109 on and I can say this confidently, it is thrilling music making, spontaneous sounding and full of personality! I'm not saying it's "elite", I'm just saying it's a good thing to hear.

Frank is another one who mixes up the sonatas - annoying!

[DavidW]

I will temporarily lock the thread, but I appreciate Mandryka's on-topic post.

[DavidW]

I have removed rude or dismissive posts made over the past few days. There is so much interesting, thoughtful discussion that I don't want to keep it locked.

But I, please, ask everyone to remember the golden rule.

[Todd]

Whereas fixation stays the same.

Indeed.  Your fixation on my listening and posting is perverse.

[prémont]

Looking more closely, I'd say the "seemingly random" arrangement may be not random after all, but structured on the basis of key relationships. E.g.:

CD1 - 12 in Ab, 6 in F, 31 in Ab, 13 in Eb
CD4 - 18 in Eb, 29 in Bb
CD6 - 23 in f, 17 in d, 15 in D
CD8 - 5 in c, 23 in C, 4 in Eb

Not perfect, but the best explanation I can provide.

Yes, I've had similar ideas. However, the sequence might ultimately be determined by the producer after Annie's passing.

[prémont]

I've just put Claude Frank's op 109 on and I can say this confidently, it is thrilling music making, spontaneous sounding and full of personality! I'm not saying it's "elite", I'm just saying it's a good thing to hear.

In my view, Frank's cycle stands out as one of the most consistently rewarding and comprehensive experiences.

[Florestan]

Indeed.  Your fixation on my listening and posting is perverse.

Touché!

But then again, if I put you on the ignore list, I'd miss not a few rational and reasonable posts.

Что делать?

[prémont]

I have removed rude or dismissive posts made over the past few days. There is so much interesting, thoughtful discussion that I don't want to keep it locked.

I haven't seen the latest posts before they were deleted. Did I miss something?