The deepest performances of the Bruckner symphonies.

[Mandryka]

Excellent -- this could be the one

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0002894777580

[Cato]

By that logic we just just play the music in the fourth movement which Bruckner completed. There's quite a lot of it I think. Does anyone do that?

Yes, here is a link:

Professor John Phillips has revised the completion which he and three other professors had made and then revised again c. 12 years ago.

He has assorted essays on why the Fourth Movement should be completed (most of the music has survived, and sketches and other things indicate how to reconstruct the missing last pages, stolen by people for souvenirs and now possibly lost forever, especially after World War II's destruction) and why his revised completion is the one to hear!

His completion has some impressive supporters: Eliahu Inbal and Riccardo Chailly among them.

Next, the Hallé Orchestra, Manchester, will perform and record the work on their own label, performance 26 October 2024, under their new conductor Kahchun Wong. https://www.bridgewater-hall.co.uk/wh.... Recording release date tba.

Following this, the Concertgebouw Amsterdam will perform the work in Amsterdam, February 2025, under Riccardo Chailly. https://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/en.... Maestro Chailly will further be performing the work at three concerts in Milan with the Filarmonica of the Teatro La Scala, in March 2025. https://www.teatroallascala.org/it/st.... I will be speaking at a discussion session "Un nuova Finale per la Nona" at the "A. Toscanini" hall, La Scala, Milan, 5pm, 14 March 2025, with Alberto Fassone and Riccardo Chailly: https://www.teatroallascala.org/it/st...

Until the recording mentioned for this month appears, the professor has a MIDI realization of his completion:

Then there is a fine performance of the "SPCM" completion from c. 2012:

[brewski]

I know someone who says that Bruckner's music is essentially optimistic, a celebration of life. If that's right, the incomplete 9th doesn't fit. Or do people think that the three movements are optimistic enough?

An interesting premise, that optimism, with which I can identify. That said, there is something extremely moving about the symphony ending with the Adagio, which carries what might be considered a different kind of optimism, the serenity of death.

-Bruce

[Florestan]

I know someone who says that Bruckner's music is essentially optimistic, a celebration of life. If that's right, the incomplete 9th doesn't fit. Or do people think that the three movements are optimistic enough?

An interesting premise, that optimism, with which I can identify. That said, there is something extremely moving about the symphony ending with the Adagio, which carries what might be considered a different kind of optimism, the serenity of death.

-Bruce

But guys, there are only three movements simply because death prevented a fourth. Had Bruckner lived to complete it, the discussion would have probably been very different.

[Mandryka]

But guys, there are only three movements simply because death prevented a fourth. Had Bruckner lived to complete it, the discussion would have probably been very different.

I think quite a lot of the fourth movement remains -- it's not like Moses und Aaron, where Schoenberg just couldn't find the way to finish it.  We more or less know the sort of tone Bruckner intended to end the symphony.

[brewski]

But guys, there are only three movements simply because death prevented a fourth. Had Bruckner lived to complete it, the discussion would have probably been very different.

True.

I think quite a lot of the fourth movement remains -- it's not like Moses und Aaron, where Schoenberg just couldn't find the way to finish it.  We more or less know the sort of tone Bruckner intended to end the symphony.

Yes. I think about this, too, in relation to other works, e.g., Bartók's Viola Concerto, Mahler's Tenth, or the last act of Berg's Lulu. I'm grateful for the completions, even if the results may not be exactly what the composers might have done.

-Bruce

[Mandryka]

I'm grateful for the completions, even if the results may not be exactly what the composers might have done.

-Bruce

Maybe better that what the composer might have done -- it's just impossible to say.

[brewski]

Maybe better that what the composer might have done -- it's just impossible to say.

And that is also quite true. For better or worse, I have a rather binary outlook on these things: is the "new" music worth hearing — or not? In all of the cases above, I'm glad to have the additional music. (Just thought of another one, too: Puccini's Turandot, completed by Alfano, and later with an ending done by Berio.)

-Bruce

[Mandryka]

And of course Berio did Schubert 10

[Florestan]

I think quite a lot of the fourth movement remains -- it's not like Moses und Aaron, where Schoenberg just couldn't find the way to finish it.  We more or less know the sort of tone Bruckner intended to end the symphony.

Given his habit of perpetually altering his scores, there is no way to know what form it would have finally taken. Maybe even the Adagio would not have remained as it is.

[Mandryka]

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0002894791673

The 9 here is fabulous, but it is not live.

[Mandryka]

Given his habit of perpetually altering his scores, there is no way to know what form it would have finally taken. Maybe even the Adagio would not have remained as it is.

When I was a student we used to call this "the conventionalist sulk"

A: Leprechauns dance in my kitchen!
B; How do you know? Have you seen them?
A: No, they only come out in the dark.
B: Well can't you sneak down and peep into the kitchen in the middle of the night?
A: Of course not! They'd hear me and run away.
B: Well, in that case, I'll fix up a camera in the kitchen -- one which can detect motion and heat, and so work in the dark.
A: Don't be silly! Leprechauns are no fools, they'll spot that straight away and hide . . . . .

[Herman]

I know someone who says that Bruckner's music is essentially optimistic, a celebration of life. If that's right, the incomplete 9th doesn't fit. Or do people think that the three movements are optimistic enough?

Maybe that optimist is wrong?
I'm not saying Bruckner's music is pessimistic, but one does sense (in the 9th) a kind of despair.

[Cato]

Maybe that optimist is wrong?

I'm not saying Bruckner's music is pessimistic, but one does sense (in the 9th) a kind of despair.

The Ninth Symphony's Finale, however, after going through various, rather mysterious-sounding struggles, dispels that feeling in the last bars.

[vandermolen]

Symphony 9 (Furtwangler) or Wand (Berlin PO) I was at his final live concert in London.

Symphony 8 (Horenstein) Vox/Turnabout or BBC Legends live performance (I was there as a tincy teenager)

Symphony 6 (Klemperer)

Symphony 5 (Knappertsbusch)

Symphony 4 (Klemperer)

Symphony 3 (Szell)

[Leo K.]

Symphony 9 (Furtwangler) or Wand (Berlin PO) I was at his final live concert in London.

Symphony 8 (Horenstein) Vox/Turnabout or BBC Legends live performance (I was there as a tincy teenager)

Symphony 6 (Klemperer)

Symphony 5 (Knappertsbusch)

Symphony 4 (Klemperer)

Symphony 3 (Szell)

A majestic list of great recordings. Gold standard stuff.

[MickeyBoy]

Excellent -- this could be the one

https://open.qobuz.com/album/0002894777580

I have a copy of the Karajan Ninth with the BPO. Recorded live by the ORF 25.7.1976 Grosses Festspielhaus, Salzburg. The recording is part of the series Jubilaums-edition der Wiener Philharmoniker,11991, DG 435 326-2.

[MickeyBoy]

I heard the Ninth in 1971 at the Royal Festival Hall. The initial climax in the first mvt was a knockout. Horenstein jumped as high as he could as get the maximum spl out of the orchestra. It was thrilling.

I just unearthed a copy of the Brucker Ninth, BBC, Horenstein, on Music & Arts CD-781. It gives the date as Dec 2nd 1970.

Can't paste here the image of the CD from Amazon - what is the secret to doing this?

[DavidW]

I just unearthed a copy of the Brucker Ninth, BBC, Horenstein, on Music & Arts CD-781. It gives the date as Dec 2nd 1970.

Can't paste here the image of the CD from Amazon - what is the secret to doing this?

You right click on the image (long press if you're on mobile) and select "copy image address" or "copy image link" and not "copy image". Then, type out the image tag or click on the icon. For example:

Code Select Expand

[img]https://i.discogs.com/0jTdej41wRYRXVFoN1Mt_0bu_SyR904ktewVoiOSiP0/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:527/w:600/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTUyNjYx/MjctMTM4OTI3NTkx/MS01Mjk3LmpwZWc.jpeg[/img]generates

[MickeyBoy]

I heard the Ninth in 1971 at the Royal Festival Hall. The initial climax in the first mvt was a knockout. Horenstein jumped as high as he could as get the maximum spl out of the orchestra. It was thrilling.

I just unearthed a copy of the Brucker Ninth, BBC, Horenstein, on Music & Arts CD-781. It gives the date as Dec 2nd 1970. I did hear it in Royal Festival Hall, but the date was likely Dec 1970.