Beethoven Symphonies Cycle: Which is your #1 pick?

Started by stateworker, January 30, 2013, 05:16:54 PM

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DavidW

For newer, leaner takes on the symphonies I like Haitink/LSO and Vanska. Both these cycles are driven, and exciting with phenomenal playing. The SQ is also exceptional.





Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: DavidW on December 10, 2024, 03:14:43 PMFor newer, leaner takes on the symphonies I like Haitink/LSO and Vanska. Both these cycles are driven, and exciting with phenomenal playing. The SQ is also exceptional.

I like that Haitink set a lot. There are no duds in it, and some of the performances (4, 7, 8, possibly 5) are exceptional. I was looking for a big-orchestra approach with some modest HIP influences, and this one fit the bill nicely.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Daverz

A couple more chamber orchestra cycles to consider:

Paavo Järvi


Thomas Dausgaard


San Antone

Emmanuel Krivine [Le Chambre Philharmonique; Naïve]


AnotherSpin

The question in the title is incomplete. It should be added: Which is your #1 pick this moment? Today it's one set, tomorrow another, and the day after tomorrow yet another. Can we really expect permanence from infinitely changeable? ;)

Harry

I have about 6 or 7 favourites, and adding once a year another set, at the moment it would be the set with Immerseel. tomorrow something else....
Drink to me only with thine ears, and I will pledge with sound.

AnotherSpin

Exactly. Over different periods of time, I've listened to practically all the sets mentioned in the thread; I liked many of them. However, I find it very strange to latch onto just one of them and consider it the best for all time. It feels unnatural, though understandable if the sets are purchased and one either regrets spending the money or doesn't have the means for more than one or two sets. Thankfully, streaming has happily freed us from this unnecessary self-limitation.

Que

Quote from: Anooj on December 10, 2024, 07:37:27 AMAs someone who has a couple of traditional "big band" cycles, what would be the most recommendable cycle that's historically informed (I can go either way on period vs. modern instruments, more interested in the smaller orchestras and quicker tempos), and has really good interpretations of especially symphonies 1, 2, and 4? I sense those three would benefit the most from reduced orchestra sizes.

Frans Brüggen and his Orchestra of the 18th Century  (Philips/Decca).

prémont

Quote from: AnotherSpin on December 11, 2024, 12:20:44 AMExactly. Over different periods of time, I've listened to practically all the sets mentioned in the thread; I liked many of them. However, I find it very strange to latch onto just one of them and consider it the best for all time. It feels unnatural, though understandable if the sets are purchased and one either regrets spending the money or doesn't have the means for more than one or two sets. Thankfully, streaming has happily freed us from this unnecessary self-limitation.

Yes, It is senseless to nominate a single recording as the best. As to me I have a group of HIP or HIP-influenced recordings that I prefer, and this group remains relatively stable, though it may be expanded when new recordings are released. Similarly, I do not favor only one single recording in traditional style. Instead I have a group of favored recordings in traditional style which remains relatively unchanged. I think many of us feel in the same way. And which one(s) from these groups I would purchase is quite another question and would depend upon availability, cost and how much money I am willing to spend on LvB's symphonies. But in all cases it would not depend upon some sophisticated rating system.
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

AnotherSpin

Quote from: prémont on December 11, 2024, 05:10:45 AMYes, It is senseless to nominate a single recording as the best. As to me I have a group of HIP or HIP-influenced recordings that I prefer, and this group remains relatively stable, though it may be expanded when new recordings are released. Similarly, I do not favor only one single recording in traditional style. Instead I have a group of favored recordings in traditional style which remains relatively unchanged. I think many of us feel in the same way. And which one(s) from these groups I would purchase is quite another question and would depend upon availability, cost and how much money I am willing to spend on LvB's symphonies. But in all cases it would not depend upon some sophisticated rating system.

I'm not trying to hint at a certain, uh... often-mentioned rating system on this forum, but still, the more pretentious the rating, the less sense and usefulness it has. Imo, of course 8)

Karl Henning

The bottom line seems to be: the recording industry has a Beethoven Symphony fixation.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brian

Especially in HIP-informed modern instrument versions - I own Mackerras, Chailly, Nelson, and Paavo Jarvi, and have streamed and loved Dausgaard, Vanska, Ades, Haitink/LSO, and several others. It's a very, very busy marketplace in this particular niche and I can't say any one is "the best."

However, broadly generalizing among the HIP-informed on modern instruments:
Ades, Dausgaard, and Jarvi are the highest-energy chamber orchestra versions
Chailly is the highest-energy big orchestra version
Mackerras and Haitink are more of a curated/thoughtful mixture of traditional and HIP-informed, the former with smaller orchestra, the latter with bigger

prémont

Quote from: Karl Henning on December 11, 2024, 05:35:03 AMThe bottom line seems to be: the recording industry has a Beethoven Symphony fixation.

While it is impossible to have too many recordings of the Art of Fugue, due to their substantial differences, one can certainly accumulate an excessive number of recordings of Beethoven's symphonies. This is the reason why I have begun to exercise restraint regarding the latter
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Karl Henning

Quote from: prémont on December 11, 2024, 05:48:51 AMWhile it is impossible to have too many recordings of the Art of Fugue, due to their substantial differences, one can certainly accumulate an excessive number of recordings of Beethoven's symphonies. This is the reason why I have begun to exercise restraint regarding the latter
Eminent good sense!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: prémont on December 11, 2024, 05:48:51 AMWhile it is impossible to have too many recordings of the Art of Fugue, due to their substantial differences, one can certainly accumulate an excessive number of recordings of Beethoven's symphonies. This is the reason why I have begun to exercise restraint regarding the latter
There being so many available, plus the likelihood that most of us have all the LvB Symphony sets we could possibly need, let's not call this a recommendation, per se, but I do also enjoy Blomstedt's set with Staatskapelle Dresden
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Brian on December 11, 2024, 05:41:06 AMEspecially in HIP-informed modern instrument versions - I own Mackerras, Chailly, Nelson, and Paavo Jarvi, and have streamed and loved Dausgaard, Vanska, Ades, Haitink/LSO, and several others. It's a very, very busy marketplace in this particular niche and I can't say any one is "the best."

However, broadly generalizing among the HIP-informed on modern instruments:
Ades, Dausgaard, and Jarvi are the highest-energy chamber orchestra versions
Chailly is the highest-energy big orchestra version
Mackerras and Haitink are more of a curated/thoughtful mixture of traditional and HIP-informed, the former with smaller orchestra, the latter with bigger

Sometimes is strikes me there is a cult of "high energy" or "intense," as though it can't be too intense. It can. :) I imagine the rehearsals, "that's fine, but more intense, ok but even more intense, even more intense. Ok, I was hoping this will not be necessary, but Werner will be distributing vials of crack to the viola section, check your music stand fora note on how to administer."

I was listening to samples of Krivine, and of Vriend, and that was too intense. Do these people breath? Mackerras and Brüggen are plenty intense for me, with some evidence of humanity.
Formerly Scarpia (Scarps), Baron Scarpia, Ghost of Baron Scarpia, Varner, Ratliff, Parsifal, perhaps others.

Brian

Quote from: Spotted Horses on December 11, 2024, 06:43:41 AMSometimes is strikes me there is a cult of "high energy" or "intense," as though it can't be too intense. It can. :) I imagine the rehearsals, "that's fine, but more intense, ok but even more intense, even more intense. Ok, I was hoping this will not be necessary, but Werner will be distributing vials of crack to the viola section, check your music stand fora note on how to administer."

I was listening to samples of Krivine, and of Vriend, and that was too intense. Do these people breath? Mackerras and Brüggen are plenty intense for me, with some evidence of humanity.

Oh yes, I hope people don't assume intense = good, I was trying to help the original question-asker with a little more description. I know I was all-in on the "intense" cycles like Dausgaard in my early 20s. Nowadays, I'm still not always into lower energy cycles like Cluytens or Kletzki, but the middle ground is much more appealing.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Brian on December 11, 2024, 06:48:20 AMOh yes, I hope people don't assume intense = good, I was trying to help the original question-asker with a little more description. I know I was all-in on the "intense" cycles like Dausgaard in my early 20s. Nowadays, I'm still not always into lower energy cycles like Cluytens or Kletzki, but the middle ground is much more appealing.

It may be impossible to quantify, but for me it helps if there is a feeling of strain, as though the musicians are pushed to the breaking point, are sweating, are playing with abandon. I had to turn that Krivine and Vriend off, every frantic staccato note executed with utter, robotic precision. It was repulsive to me. I wouldn't put Paavo Jarvi in the same category.
Formerly Scarpia (Scarps), Baron Scarpia, Ghost of Baron Scarpia, Varner, Ratliff, Parsifal, perhaps others.

prémont

Quote from: Karl Henning on December 11, 2024, 06:07:52 AMThere being so many available, plus the likelihood that most of us have all the LvB Symphony sets we could possibly need, let's not call this a recommendation, per se, but I do also enjoy Blomstedt's set with Staatskapelle Dresden.

I've had it for many years and know it well. It provides outstanding orchestral performance, yet it has always seemed somewhat clinical to me — a quality I find typical of Blomstedt, for instance also concerning his Nielsen symphonies from Los Angeles even if I admit that they are brilliant.
Reality trumps our fantasy far beyond imagination.

Karl Henning

Quote from: prémont on December 11, 2024, 08:04:24 AMI've had it for many years and know it well. It provides outstanding orchestral performance, yet it has always seemed somewhat clinical to me — a quality I find typical of Blomstedt, for instance also concerning his Nielsen symphonies from Los Angeles even if I admit that they are brilliant.
I can see that. 
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot