Why Do We Assume That God Is Good ?

[Bonehelm]

God is overrated.

[drogulus]

You're highly gifted, Greg ....... it's time you realize that! 

oh, please, not nearly as much as other people on this forum  0:)

     True.


     

     

     

[prémont]

The Christian God - if he exists - may perhaps be well-meaning, but he is quite obviously incompetent, since his work of creation leaves much to be desired. Forgive him as you would forgive your neighbour.

[Brian]

The Christian God - if he exists - may perhaps be well-meaning, but he is quite obviously incompetent, since his work of creation leaves much to be desired. Forgive him as you would forgive your neighbour.

Good point. I'd be willing to forgive God, though not so much to worship him.

[Ephemerid]

"I understand, of course, what an upheaval of the universe it will be when everything in heaven and earth blends in one hymn of praise and everything that lives and has lived cries aloud: 'Thou art just, O Lord, for Thy ways are revealed.' When the mother embraces the fiend who threw her child to the dogs, and all three cry aloud with tears, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' then, of course, the crown of knowledge will be reached and all will be made clear. But what pulls me up here is that I can't accept that harmony. And while I am on earth, I make haste to take my own measures. You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really may happen that if I live to that moment, or rise again to see it, I, too, perhaps, may cry aloud with the rest, looking at the mother embracing the child's torturer, 'Thou art just, O Lord!' but I don't want to cry aloud then. While there is still time, I hasten to protect myself, and so I renounce the higher harmony altogether. It's not worth the tears of that one tortured child who beat itself on the breast with its little fist and prayed in its stinking outhouse, with its unexpiated tears to 'dear, kind God'! It's not worth it, because those tears are unatoned for. They must be atoned for, or there can be no harmony. But how? How are you going to atone for them? Is it possible? By their being avenged? But what do I care for avenging them? What do I care for a hell for oppressors? What good can hell do, since those children have already been tortured? And what becomes of harmony, if there is hell? I want to forgive. I want to embrace. I don't want more suffering. And if the sufferings of children go to swell the sum of sufferings which was necessary to pay for truth, then I protest that the truth is not worth such a price. I don't want the mother to embrace the oppressor who threw her son to the dogs! She dare not forgive him! Let her forgive him for herself, if she will, let her forgive the torturer for the immeasurable suffering of her mother's heart. But the sufferings of her tortured child she has no right to forgive; she dare not forgive the torturer, even if the child were to forgive him! And if that is so, if they dare not forgive, what becomes of harmony? Is there in the whole world a being who would have the right to forgive and could forgive? I don't want harmony. From love for humanity I don't want it. I would rather be left with the unavenged suffering. I would rather remain with my unavenged suffering and unsatisfied indignation, even if I were wrong. Besides, too high a price is asked for harmony; it's beyond our means to pay so much to enter on it. And so I hasten to give back my entrance ticket, and if I am an honest man I am bound to give it back as soon as possible. And that I am doing. It's not God that I don't accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return him the ticket."

~ Ivan Karamazov, from The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoevsky

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/d/dostoyevsky/d72b/chapter35.html

[Al Moritz]

because if he can't do something, surely he isn't God?

To suggest that God should be able to do the logically impossible doesn't sound too logical, does it?

[prémont]

To suggest that God should be able to do the logically impossible doesn't sound too logical, does it?

But what is logic in your sense other than a human way of thinking? Maybe there exists a "higher" logic, which we don´t understand.

[greg]

But what is logic in your sense other than a human way of thinking? Maybe there exists a "higher" logic, which we don´t understand.

obviously, because God sure doesn't make a bit of sense (neither does anything else).

[drogulus]

To suggest that God should be able to do the logically impossible doesn't sound too logical, does it?

      I don't think that any suggestion is actually being made. The point of the demonstration is that some things that are said are sterile word combinations. Suppose you say you believe something but can't say what it is. Are you believing anything? Perhaps the power of words to mean something on their own without you having to participate is really what you believe.

      If there's a god or gravity or neutrinos or multiverses they will do just fine without us. And what if they don't? What if they start feeling all non-existenty if we ignore them? I think there's not much we can do, and our crazy obsession with belief is not likely to help them anyway. After you have tried your best to discover what is true about all these things your job is done. The universe is not sustained by your belief in it. That's taking the placebo effect just a bit too far.

      Why would anyone think it's a good idea to write good and evil into the structure of the universe when it's pretty obvious that these judgments come in with us, to serve our own point of view? They make sense from a human perspective. A god can't be moral, because morality is a feature of our life in a social system. Morality doesn't have an independant existence outside the human context that gives it meaning. It's how people behave with other people that matters, and no one knows more about this than the people who do it.

[david johnson]

Well, He's not good if he chooses to put our spirits in our bodies without asking for our permission. That's extremely rude, and I doubt anyone would agree to that knowing they could spend an eternity in hell if they make a wrong choice.

you assume your spirit exists before you are conceived.

dj

[david johnson]

God is overrated.

nah...just human attempts to underrate Him are overrated. 

dj

[david johnson]

Are you on drugs?

no.   
what do you not understand?

dj

[knight66]

no.   
what do you not understand?

dj

He asked Lis the Mod the same question; it is just a random drugs test thing.

Mike

[karlhenning]

Depending on the manner of answer, the next stage is the breathalyzer.

[knight66]

How many stages until the leg-irons kick in?

Mike

[Ephemerid]

Depending on the manner of answer, the next stage is the breathalyzer.

"Pneumalyzer" you mean.  

[karlhenning]

How many stages until the leg-irons kick in?

After a few twists of the cancrizans . . . .

[MN Dave]

Why do I assume God is a fruitcake?

[Brian]

He asked Lis the Mod the same question; it is just a random drugs test thing.

Mike

Is M forever my old Wal-Mart manager? 

[DavidW]

Why do I assume God is a fruitcake?

Because he is a special treat for Christmas?