Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

[Daverz]

There's a Brahms 1 by him with the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra which I liked, and a Brahms 4 with the All American Youth Orchestra

There's a great Brahms 4 with the New Philharmonia in the RCA stereo box.

[Todd]

Basically, I bought this for Bozhanov.  I've snapped up all of his post-Cliburn recordings, and he is all that and then some.  Ms Suwanai had not yet made it into my collection, though I have streamed her LvB violin sonata twofer paired with the late, great Nicholas Angelich.  So, good stuff was assured.  This offers more that that. 

The duo practiced and performed these works for over a year and a half before recording them, and it kinda shows.  Bozhanov states that Brahms is not one of his "soul" composers, but that does not preclude him from sprinkling little unique insights and touches throughout.  As is his wont, every single note and chord receive lavish attention, and his touch is nuanced to the Nth degree.  In exposed sections, he delivers fine gradations of tone and dynamics of near-Volodosian levels.  I didn't get the liner notes with the purchased download, but it sounds like he uses a Shigeru Kawai rather than a Steinway, and the clarity, when wanted, benefits from the quick action.  If he uses a Steinway, well, it's all the more impressive.  Ms Suwanai offers a rich tone, a variable sound, mostly sounding medium size, though she projects mightily when called for.   Her vibrato is perfectly judged.  I mean, yeah. 

The two artists play together in perfect sync, except when they don't, very purposely.  There are extended passages where they go off on their own, equally weighted and intelligible musical journeys, only to arrive back at the same spot just so.    Whether spinning out gorgeous melodies or more intense passages, or vibrant fast movements, or drawn out, meltingly beautiful slow ones, or piano centric passages or violin dominated ones, the duo deliver the goods.  All three sonatas sound masterful, but it is the unabashedly lyrical, songful First that really pops. 

Over the years, without consciously trying, I've amassed a decent collection of these works with some of the biggest names, but none really stand out in memory as being markedly superior to this.  Of course, a shootout could sort the wheat from the better wheat.  Hmmm.

Superb recorded sound.

[Luke]

Of course, a shootout could sort the wheat from the better wheat.  Hmmm.

I'd enjoy that. These are desert island pieces for me.

[NumberSix]

Superb recorded sound.

I pulled this one up on Spotify just now to add to my library for future listening. You might be amused to see how they have the tracks listed. Presumably that's Japanese. Also, his name is not mentioned anywhere, unless it's in the Japanese text.

It's all in English on Apple Music and on Presto streaming.

[Todd]

Also, his name is not mentioned anywhere, unless it's in the Japanese text.

I speak and read no Japanese, but the google machine returns エフゲニ・ボジャノフ as his name in translation.  That may not be correct, I don't know.  I've noticed a degradation of quality of indexing and labeling on streaming and retail sites since Covid, and it doesn't look to be getting better.  NoSQL has some limitations.

[NumberSix]

I speak and read no Japanese, but the google machine returns エフゲニ・ボジャノフ as his name in translation.  That may not be correct, I don't know.  I've noticed a degradation of quality of indexing and labeling on streaming and retail sites since Covid, and it doesn't look to be getting better.  NoSQL has some limitations.

I always assume that the metadata comes from the record labels who provide the files. I can't imagine the streaming services have the manpower to sit around correcting the many thousands of files they get constantly. But I don't have any basis beyond my own assumptions there.

At least on Apple Music, if you add something to your streaming library, you have the ability to modify the metadata yourself. I've done that before, particularly with genre tags.

[Todd]

I always assume that the metadata comes from the record labels who provide the files. I can't imagine the streaming services have the manpower to sit around correcting the many thousands of files they get constantly. But I don't have any basis beyond my own assumptions there.

I suspect the retailers and streaming services do rely on data provided to them, but I know with certainty, based on personal experience on a daily or weekly basis, that search functionality has gone to shit, with Amazon the worst of all.  I regularly search for products, most of which I bought from Amazon, on Amazon and get no results.  For recordings, I type in the artist full name and the composer full name and title if available, and I get nothing.  If I use Google, I get the right item.  I primarily stream using Amazon, and its search function is likewise very poor.  Someone, somewhere implemented something improperly.

[NumberSix]

I suspect the retailers and streaming services do rely on data provided to them, but I know with certainty, based on personal experience on a daily or weekly basis, that search functionality has gone to shit, with Amazon the worst of all.  I regularly search for products, most of which I bought from Amazon, on Amazon and get no results.  For recordings, I type in the artist full name and the composer full name and title if available, and I get nothing.  If I use Google, I get the right item.  I primarily stream using Amazon, and its search function is likewise very poor.  Someone, somewhere implemented something improperly.

I quite like the Amazon streaming music app, even though it can be sometimes a mess to use. I think it's one of the worst for Classical because it cuts off so much of the song titles. Unfortunately.

Someone should probably talk about Brahms now. I've gotten us a bit off track here in this thread.

[Mandryka]

I like this Suwanai/Bhozanov because it's so fresh sounding - not at all heavy and turgid. Suwanai's a new name for me but she seems pretty good, not that I know much about violin.

It's probably a bit premature for me to say this, I've listened once only, but everything seems pretty mainstream by 20th century standards at the level of embellishment. None of the portamento etc which characterises modern HIP like Schayegh/Schultsz. But the freshness and evident teamwork stops it from being middle of the road in any way.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'd enjoy that. These are desert island pieces for me.

I recently acquired the Znaider/Bronfman, a full-bodied account which I like a lot, more than Stern/Bronfman. The Grumiaux is also a recent acquisition which I have yet to hear; one drawback is that it is missing the FAE scherzo.

(A few months ago I heard Daniel Lozakovich and Behzod Abduraimov present that scherzo as an encore to a fine violin/piano recital that included the Kreutzer and the Cesar Franck.)

[(poco) Sforzando]

Is there a good recording of both versions of the op. 8 piano trio? The ones I have present only the revised version.

If not, at least a recording of the first version?

[Luke]

I recently acquired the Znaider/Bronfman, a full-bodied account which I like a lot, more than Stern/Bronfman. The Grumiaux is also a recent acquisition which I have yet to hear; one drawback is that it is missing the FAE scherzo.

I adore the Grumiaux. Suk is another favourite of mine - also without the FAE, however.

[Mandryka]

Wonderfully non-Schenkerian performance of the op 101 trio from Vogt and the Tetzlaffs - full of asperities and sharpness and articulations rather than the familiar mid century modern long lyrical phrases.

I came to play it because the scherzo of op 101 came up in a conversation - it may be the most startlingly original music Brahms wrote.

[Herman]

We have been on a Brahms Kammermusik binge this weekend, listening to the piano trios in particular, the C major 87 and the c minor 101, throwing in the two contemporaneous violin sonatas and the clarinet trio.

Those two piano trios are just the most amazing music ever, so incredibly inventive, new and just chock full of life. If you look back and listen to Schumann piano trios, Mendelssohn or even Beethoven, there is just a lot less on the platter. It's also striking how massively dramatic this music is, it's hard to believe that people used to talk about Brahms and his 'abstract' music. What were these people listening to?

There's a live C major trio with Vogt and the Teztlaff siblings on youtube, unfortunately sound and image are outa sync. I like what Howie calls the 'asperities' but ultimately a lower-profile group like the Atos Trio suits me better...

Brahms was fully aware of what he was doing there; for once he did not indulge in his habitual self-deprecating talk when he announced these pieces to Simrock.

The clarinet trio which I used to love is clearly a step down after op 87 and 101. Also, this piece is by definition always done by ad hoc groups, which doesn't help.

As regards the violin sonatas... my GF and I couldn't help but notice today's star violinists just don't play these pieces as well as Oistrakh and Grumiaux did, sadly.

[Mandryka]

It's so long since I last heard the string quintets that it feels like new music! Gringolts sounds great to me.

Do to think the more the instruments the better the Brahms, at least with chamber music? sonatas<trios<quartets<quintets<sextets. One word answers only allowed in the affirmative.

[Herman]

Do to think the more the instruments the better the Brahms, at least with chamber music?

No.
Not necessarily.
IMO Brahms's most sophisticated work for more than three instruments, the Op. 67 quartet, largely consists of string trios in ever-changing formation.

[Mandryka]

Here's a new and I think original sounding op 67, the Novus Quartet. Not "sunny"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm-V00UUpqs

[DavidW]

Do to think the more the instruments the better the Brahms, at least with chamber music? sonatas<trios<quartets<quintets<sextets. One word answers only allowed in the affirmative.

My ranking is opposite yours!

[Madiel]

The clarinet trio is not a step down from anything in my view.

[André]

I have a love/don't get it (yet?) relationship with Brahms' chamber music.

Works I love:

- violin sonatas 1 and 3
- the 2 clarinet sonatas, but esp. no 1
- the cello sonatas
- the horn trio
- the op 25 and 26 piano quartets
- the piano quintet op 34 (and its 2-piano incarnation)
- the sextet op 18

Works I don't get (yet)
- all the string quartets
- all the string quintets

Works I like (really) but don't quite love:
- the viola sonatas (I prefer them in the original clarinet instrumentation)
- violin sonata no 2
- the piano trios
- piano quartet no 3
- the clarinet trio and quintet
- the sextet op 36