Chamber music

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I like Mahler, Wagner, and Verdi.  So which chamber works would you recommend?

I could recommend Mahler's very early piano quartet (he was 16) but I'm not sure that'd be doing anyone any favors!

[The new erato]

"Inside the idiom"??

So if a performer or group of performers originate from places like the western hemisphere or the far east - including the entire Pacific theater - they're automatically behind the curve as far as performing insight?

IOW, it's the 'B list' for all musicians outside the tiny European bubble?

Do you smell where this is going.....?

I smell where you are going.

I never feel the nerve of the music in the Emerson performances, and for me they are very bad FIRST choices. I wasn't aware that it was a crime to be of that opinion. Their Bartok eg are beautifully played but dull.

[DavidW]

I like Mahler, Wagner, and Verdi.  So which chamber works would you recommend?

Oh in the case that you prefer long, overblown 100+ symphony orchestra late Romantic era music, you clearly would not appreciate the intimate and subtle nuances of chamber music anyway, so I would recommend that you steer clear.

[SonicMan46]

Sonic Man - I have been listening to classical for around a year and primarily focused on orchestral music. .....

Is this the sort of direction you were looking for Sonic Man ?........................

I would like to ask another question. What is it that has drawn all of you to chamber music? Is it the main genre     that you listen to or something you occasionally return to? ......................

Daedalus - spent a few moments looking at the 'chamber works' of the composers that I mentioned previously; included mainly piano & string pieces (no solo or 2-instrument sonatas, at least this time!) -  recommendations are given from my own collection, but certainly others will have their own suggestions.

Did not include much in the way of 'wind' chamber works (much of which I own & love by numerous composers, including most of the ones already listed) - there is a recent thread on this topic started by Bill (Bogey) - take a look, if you're getting into these instruments, also.

Of course, there are many other composers that wrote beautiful chamber works that could be mentioned, but some of the recordings on this list & those suggested by others should get you started - good luck - this will be a LONG journey! 

Beethoven
  Piano Trios - Beaux Arts & Chung Trio
  String Quartets - Quatuor Mosaiques & Takacs - try Op. 18
  String Trios - Zurich String Trio & Grumiaux et al

Boccherini
  Cello Quintets - many; Lester-Vanbrugh SQ (Hyperion)
  Piano Quintets & Quartets - Ensemble Claviere (Brilliant)
  String Quartets & Sextets - Cappriccio label

Brahms
  Clarinet & Piano Trios - Beaux Arts (Philips Duo)
  Piano Quartets - Beaux Arts/Trampler
  String Quartets - New Budapest SQ (Hyperion Dyad)

Dvorak
  Piano & String Quintet - Gaudier Ensemble (Hyperion)
  Piano Trios & Quartets - Domus & Gobub/Kaplan/Carr
  String Quartets - Panocha SQ (Supraphon - all!)

Faure
  Piano Quartets - Nash Ensemble (CRD)
  Piano Quintets - Quintetto di Roma (Claves)
  String Quartet - many; usually w/ other composers

Haydn
  Baryton Trios - Hsu (ASV)
  Piano Trios - van Swieten Trio (Brilliant)
  String Quartets - so many; search for thread

Mendelssohn
  Octet - many; Hausmusik (Virgin X2)
  Piano Trios - Golub/Kaplan/Carr (Arabesque)
  String Quartets - Hausmusik & Emersons (DG)

Mozart
  Piano Quartets - Mozartean Players (H. Mundi)
  Piano Trios - Lubin et al (H. Mundi)
  String Quartets - Quator Mozaiques & Alban Berg SQ
  String Quintets - Grumiaux Trio & Talich-Rehak
  String Trios - Grumiaux et al (Philips Duo)

Schubert
  Octet & Piano Quintet - Hogwood (L'Oiseau-Lyre)
  Piano Trios - Beaux Arts Trio (Philips - 2 CDs)
  String Quartets/Quintet - Emersons (DG - 3 CDs)

Schumann
  Piano Chamber Works - Beaux Arts (Philips - 2 CDs)
  String Quartets - Fine Arts SQ (Naxos)

[BachQ]

so I would recommend that you steer clear.

   

[DavidW]

Hey Dave you should prioritize your list.  You make them seem like they are all of equal importance and should all be listened to at the same time, but time constraints make that not feasible I'm sure.

If you were to make say a program by week from that list what would it be?

Since he said that he likes Dvorak and Elgar I would be tempted to say something like--

Week 1:
Dvorak string quintets, late quartets, Elgar string quartets (that is the best of their chamber works)

Week 2:
Assorted other Dvorak works (he wrote alot), Elgar chamber works

Week 3:
Start to telescope out: composers similar in style to those two.  Say the great works of Brahms, Schumann, Walton (exploring the Elgar connection)

Week 4:
Start to seek out great chamber music in other eras: Beethoven, Bach, Shostakovich etc

My theme is not one of greatness but similarity starting with the music closest to what he likes and gradually pulling back to a more diverse selection.

[Daedalus]

Sonic Man - I have printed your list, along with the other lists on this topic, for further investigation. Thank you for taking the time to detail your favourite pieces.

I see classical music, in general, as being a long (but wonderful) journey. I have been listening for over a year, albeit rather slowly as I am a rather ponderous listener and like to spend lots of time getting to know one piece in depth.

Many thanks again - now it's time for me to visit my local library website for some searching and borrowing, followed by amazon.co.uk for some mega-purchasing! 

D.

[SonicMan46]

Hey Dave you should prioritize your list.  You make them seem like they are all of equal importance and should all be listened to at the same time, but time constraints make that not feasible I'm sure........

My theme is not one of greatness but similarity starting with the music closest to what he likes and gradually pulling back to a more diverse selection.

Hello David - LOL  - hey, after 25 yrs of collecting this stuff, it was hard to 'boil down' my database - just went alphabetical w/ the composers mentioned previously - I think that Daedalus can 'pick & choose' from all of the suggestions given so far - 

And, I didn't even mentioned all of my other favs from that classical-romantic transition, much less delving into the late 19th & 20th centuries (but just to mention one, Villa-Lobos) -     Dave

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I smell where you are going.

No, you obviously don't.

I never feel the nerve of the music in the Emerson performances, and for me they are very bad FIRST choices. I wasn't aware that it was a crime to be of that opinion. Their Bartok eg are beautifully played but dull.

Take note, did I even mention the Emersons in my post to you? Honestly, I couldn't care less if you like the Emersons.

It's this bizarre "inside the idiom" comment that I object to. Meaning that no matter where classical music travels in the world it's to the European Community that one should ipso facto go to get a proper hearing of the music.

Which is a little, err..."Euro-centric" to put it mildly!!

[Don]

I like Mahler, Wagner, and Verdi.  So which chamber works would you recommend?

There are a few recordings of Verdi's String Quartet, but it isn't one of his better works.

[The new erato]

No, you obviously don't.

Take note, did I even mention the Emersons in my post to you? Honestly, I couldn't care less if you like the Emersons.

It's this bizarre "inside the idiom" comment that I object to. Meaning that no matter where classical music travels in the world it's to the European Community that one should ipso facto go to get a proper hearing of the music.

Which is a little, err..."Euro-centric" to put it mildly!!

Well - I love lots of non europeic performers, but happen to think that those I listed actually are the essential starting points. Just as Stravinskys own recordings of his own works are essential starting points if you want to know his music...then you can branch out  and listen widely. Can't see any controversy in advocating Busch/Vegh for Beethoven, Hungarian/Takacs for Bartok and Borodin for Shostakovich, that's actually been done in tons of threads.

[Lethevich]

There are a few recordings of Verdi's String Quartet, but it isn't one of his better works.

It's surprisingly decent IMO, but indeed, obviously cannot match the great operas.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well - I love lots of non europeic performers, but happen to think that those I listed actually are the essential starting points. Just as Stravinskys own recordings of his own works are essential starting points if you want to know his music...then you can branch out  and listen widely. Can't see any controversy in advocating Busch/Vegh for Beethoven, Hungarian/Takacs for Bartok and Borodin for Shostakovich, that's actually been done in tons of threads.

You can love whomever you want...and recommend whomever you want...just don't be telling us that it's the Europeans who have some mythical "inside" into classical music...

[The new erato]

You can love whomever you want...and recommend whomever you want...just don't be telling us that it's the Europeans who have some mythical "inside" into classical music...

Can't see any laws prohibiting one thinking that it's an advantage being close to a performance tradition, like in pianist A having studied with B who was a student of Brahms....do google for reviews quoting stuff like that as salient or interesting points in reviews of historical records. Whether A in such an example is an European, Asian or American (South or North) I don't care about.

I wrote about being inside the idiom and cited some universally acclaimed (and incidentally European) performances and indicated that the Emerson to me didn't seem to be the best recommendations, you made into a US vs Europe thing. Your problem.

[hildegard]

Another one of the reasons I am wanting to delve into the genre is because I am getting married in the summer and I am thinking of perhaps having a string quartet or something similar. I would like to have a few pieces of beautiful music in mind for that event and the best way to find something I like is, obviously, to listen to as much as possible!

The merits of the Shostakovich Quartets as performed by the Borodin, Fitzwilliam, or the Emerson are always a favorite subject of comparison and debate. I have the Borodin myself and have heard the Shostakovich SQs performed live by the Emerson, both brilliant performances and each having its own merit. However, Daedalus, you did mention wanting some string quartet music for your wedding, and inasmuch as I love Shostakovich, it would not be my wedding choice.

The Mozart Quartets, to my mind and ear, are indeed beautiful, more so the Mozart Quintettes.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Can't see any laws prohibiting one thinking that it's an advantage being close to a performance tradition, like in pianist A having studied with B who was a student of Brahms....do google for reviews quoting stuff like that as salient or interesting points in reviews of historical records. Whether A in such an example is an European, Asian or American (South or North) I don't care about.

I wrote about being inside the idiom and cited some universally acclaimed (and incidentally European) performances and indicated that the Emerson to me didn't seem to be the best recommendations, you made into a US vs Europe thing. Your problem.

You're patently misreading what I write. Or blowing up a smokescreen. Where did I make it a US vs. Europe thing?

This is YOUR angle, not mine.

I merely seek to put classical music on equal footing wherever in the WORLD it's performed.

Yes, studies under performer X with links to composer Y helps a performer but you can't paint with such a broad brush. Ultimately it's a given performers ABILITIES that are paramount. Not who knows who.

Studying independent of direct lineage doesn't automatically put a performer at a disadvantage. The proof of that is in the pudding.

[BorisG]

I like Mahler, Wagner, and Verdi.  So which chamber works would you recommend?

Brahms and Janacek.

[Daedalus]

However, Daedalus, you did mention wanting some string quartet music for your wedding, and inasmuch as I love Shostakovich, it would not be my wedding choice.
The Mozart Quartets, to my mind and ear, are indeed beautiful, more so the Mozart Quintettes.

Yes, finding something for my wedding is a kind of secondary motive in exploring the genre and, indeed, I was not expecting to find that in the likes of Shostakovich etc.  I think that investigating the Mozart pieces you mention might be the best bet for that objective.

Thank you for your reply amid the Europe versus the World diatribes! Incidently, it appears to me that you are both right and seem to be arguing different points. Exploring within boundaries of the musical tradition/history sounds better than within the 'idiom'. Certainly, it makes sense to make initial discoveries in this way, however using this as your only method of investigation would be rather limiting. Time to agree to disagree, gentlemen  0:)

D.

[Anne]

Yes, finding something for my wedding is a kind of secondary motive in exploring the genre and, indeed, I was not expecting to find that in the likes of Shostakovich etc.  I think that investigating the Mozart pieces you mention might be the best bet for that objective.

Thank you for your reply amid the Europe versus the World diatribes! Incidently, it appears to me that you are both right and seem to be arguing different points. Exploring within boundaries of the musical tradition/history sounds better than within the 'idiom'. Certainly, it makes sense to make initial discoveries in this way, however using this as your only method of investigation would be rather limiting. Time to agree to disagree, gentlemen  0:)

D.

For our wedding we had Pavarotti singing Schubert's "Ave Maria."

[Gurn Blanston]

For our wedding we had Pavarotti singing Schubert's "Ave Maria."

But now that he has passed on, you might enquire about Keenlyside. I do like him, and he may not be committed on that day...



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Beethoven: Sonatas for Fortepiano & Cello - Anner Bylsma & Jos Van Immerseel - Op 005 #1 Sonata in F for Cello & Fortepiano 2nd mvmt - Allegro